Annealing Cases

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by Fguffey

the perception was/is there is a parting line at the top of the water that separates the 650 + degrees neck from a shoulder that is 212 degree or below. . .

Right you are. There will be a distinguishable length of temperature gradient over which the temperature drops from 650° to 212°.

70:30 cartridge brass is a very good heat conductor. I don't know the conductivity at 600°F, but at room temperature it is about 120 W/mK. To give a relative sense of how good that is, aluminum alloys range from around 130 W/mK all the way up to 237 W/mK. Pure copper and silver are the kings, at about 400W/mK, and 420 W/mK, respectively. In the other direction, 4000 series steels are the 45 W/mK range. Stainless steels are lower, from 10-30 W/mK, depending on the alloy, but 16 W/mK is a pretty commonly used number. For further perspective on the scale, pink expanded polystyrene foam insulation is around 0.027 W/mK.

[midnightrider]

OK guys,

I ordered some tempilsticks for 10$ for five so that aint bad. I have been practicing on discarded 30-06 brass the 6.5br website article on annealing is an excact copy of the Los angelas silhoute club how to on this.

the way I have been practicing is polising the necks with fine steel wool and turniing it in the flame with a cordless drill until the neck reaches a rich golden color and some blueish color on the shoulder. I know it would not hurt to shoot these cause I have gotten the flame to heat the neck to the right color in just a few seconds and dropped them in water so no more heat travels to the case head which can get dangerous. I would still like to know what temps im getting with the tempilstick just to be sure

thanks for the replies!

[F. Guffey]

Midnightrider, thank you and Unclenick along with contributors that recognize reloading and annealing is a discipline, Unclenicks effort kept this thread from ending with the same results as other questions posted on other forums regarding annealing.

F. Guffey

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

[midnightrider]

well the tempilstic turned out to be a ****, I hate wasting money:barf:. I should have thought of that when the desrciption of the thing says temp. indicating "crayon" this thing is no where near a crayon it more like chalk. when I try to mark with it it just crumbles and leaves nothing on the case. maybe I got a bad one but it works for someone cause I read where on the 6mmbr on how to anneal brass webpage they use tempilstics. maybe ill think of something but I got nothin now, anybody got any suggestions with the tempilstic?

[Unclenick]

You got this?



If you're having trouble marking, you can grind them up and slurry with alcohol to apply with a brush. In stick form, I find the edge of the case mouth usually catches some you can watch.

[midnightrider]

yes I have one of those 650 deg markers. when I grind a little with a drop of alchohol to make like a paste, should I apply and wait for it to dry?

[F. Guffey]

http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encod...empilstick.pdf


The markers I use are old and are like crayon, I hope you did not think we abandoned you.

F. Guffey

[Unclenick]

Yes, the alcohol will dry off fast. It's just a way to put it on. I have a big can of another hard wax in powder form for preventing scale when heat treating steel, and alcohol slurry is also the way it is applied, which is what made me think of it.

Sorry you're having trouble with this. I'm wondering if you got some old stock? You might call the manufacturer and see what they say? I'm thinking it may also be possible to soften the stick some by dipping the end in the right solvent. The old chlorinated stuff, like trichloroethylene, would work, but you can't get those so easily now. I use to use a little bit on over-hard buffing compound cake and it would soften right up. Perhaps a little carbon tetrachloride spot remover would do the same thing?

[midnightrider]

thanks guys,

I will give the manufacturer a call and see what they say. for now im going to the drug store to pick up some alchohol, I dont have any of that lying around.

[Unclenick]

Denatured from the hardware will work and won't have as much water in it as drugstore isopropyl.

[midnightrider]

thanks again!

[F. Guffey]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tetrachloride



Carbon tetrachloride!!!! Unclenick, sorry about the outburst, I have a 1937 (+or-) Blue Jacket that came very close to saying "this stuff can kill you". Something like asking "when did they know when they knew when they knew"? By law commercial carriers were required to carry the carbon tet extinguisher until about 1966. Then there were the old glass grenades without a Phosgene gas warning.



F. Guffey

[Sport45]

The few '06 cases I've annealed before reforming into 7.7jap were done by spinning between my thumb and forefinger while directing a propane torch flame at the shoulder. It worked for me in that all reformed well and none have split after 5 or so reloadings.

Where does the idea come from that a drop of water on top of a pot of molten lead will cause it to explode out of the pot? I'm not saying steam won't push lead out of a pot, but it looks to me like you'd have to have water trapped inside something and taken deep into the pot for this to happen. Do a Google search on "dipping hand in molten lead" and you'll see that it's fairly common practice for those who wish to demonstrate properties of physics to dip their fingers in water, shake off the excess, and then plunge them into a pot of melt. You'd think if it was common for this to cause an explosion of lead over the audience they would include a warning of some kind. (Haven't done it myself, but I did see the Mythbusters do this with no ill effects.)

That said, I would never encourage anyone to introduce lead scrap to an already hot pot because I do see a potential for bad things to happen if moisture is carried to the bottom. Common sense dictated filling a cold pot with scrap and bringing the temperature up slowly.

[midnightrider]

the alchohol worked! I called the tempilstic company he said the tempilsticks dont stick to cold surface. the tempilaq will stick to cold surfaces, may pick some up sometime.

[Unclenick]

Yeah, I'd thought to suggest a brief pre-heat then mark-in-place, but you've got to be careful not to over do it. If you run the torch flame low enough you will learn how to do it fast enough, but it does slow your production rate a little.


Mr. Guffey,

I should have made it clear that, as with the alcohol, you would want to let it dry before heating. But from what the Wiki says, I'd suppose it would be hard to get your hands on carbon tet nowadays, anyway. Probably dry cleaning fluid in the spot removers now, and I see no reason that wouldn't work, though I haven't tried it personally.


Sport45,

Yes, the main danger is moisture getting soaked into dross that is stuck to a stirring implement that you stick into the melt when you flux. It possible that water dropped into the pot from a distance could go deep enough to become an issue. A drop of water at the surface makes steam so fast it creates a gas cushion that never lets the liquid make direct contact with the lead before it is gone.

[Sport45]

A drop of water at the surface makes steam so fast it creates a gas cushion that never lets the liquid make direct contact with the lead before it is gone.

Thanks. That's what I thought it would do. I figured it would just dance across the top like a drop of water does in a skillet that's hot enough to fry in.