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Old July 7, 2010, 11:45 PM   #1
eviltravis
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Hornady xtp's stick in chamber of .45

I'm loading 230 grain hp/xtp bullets from hornady. They list the c.o.l. in the hornady book at 1.23. I'm having to push my bullets into the cases to a c.o.l. of 1.20 to keep the rounds from sticking in the lead of the barrel. This is the case for my sprinfield trp, and my hk-45. The hk isn't quite as tight but it will not work with hornady's posted specs without sticking the bullet. I've noticed that the bullet is a pyramide shape, rather than the taper that the other bullets I've reloaded have. Coloring the round with a marker,then chambering it, I can clearly see where it rubs the black off of the bullet at the outside edge of the bullet near the case where it is at it's widest. It is my understanding that the round should headspace off of the edge of the brass and not the bullet. My question is about seating the bullets at 1.20 for the c.o.l. Will this cause me any problems? I've not really been able to find any specifications for a minimum cartridge length. Is there a such thing?
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Old July 8, 2010, 06:21 AM   #2
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It's OK to use 1.20. You may need to back off your powder charge if your at max. If it feeds good and shoots good at 1.20, go for it.
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Old July 8, 2010, 08:49 AM   #3
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I've had this problem with XTP's in multiple calibers and multiple guns. I switched to Speer Gold Dots, never had another problem.
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Old July 8, 2010, 09:41 AM   #4
Loader9
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I'm loading the same bullet in a variety of pistols from Kimbers to Springers at 1.240 and don't have the problem. You might check whatever device you are using to measure the OAL, it might be off. Considering yer having the issue on multiple pistols from different makers it kinda rules out a short throat.
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Old July 8, 2010, 10:08 AM   #5
eviltravis
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Loader9 said
Quote:
I'm loading the same bullet in a variety of pistols from Kimbers to Springers at 1.240 and don't have the problem. You might check whatever device you are using to measure the OAL, it might be off. Considering yer having the issue on multiple pistols from different makers it kinda rules out a short throat.
This was a good thought. I have two digital calipers and they both zero and read the same so I don't think it is the problem.

I use a similar bullet from hornady in 9mm and it has given me no troubles. I am really thinking it has to do with the shape of the bullet and the lead of the barrels. I've loaded a few at 1.20 and will crono them when I can get to the range. I appreciate the input so far. I'll report my findings when I get them tested.

Thanks again for the responses.
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Old July 12, 2010, 03:12 PM   #6
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Hornaday xtp

Hello, I've loaded hundreds of 230 gr XTP for my taurus pt945 and a buddy of mine's XD, I load 4.4 grains of titegroup, with a 1.23" OAL, I've never had so much as a hic-up with this load. It's the starting load with titegroup, it cycles nicely, throws the case about 4 to 5'. Easy on the wrist and the gun. When I shoot Winchester USA 230 gr the case flies about 10 to 12'. minimum case length for the .45 acp is .888". Becareful pushing the bullet in any farther without adjusting the powder, I think that could be dangerous.

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Old July 12, 2010, 05:08 PM   #7
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Any HP that I load for my XD has to be at 1.200 or they don't feed well.
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Old July 12, 2010, 06:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
I've had this problem with XTP's in multiple calibers and multiple guns.
I've had this issue with my CZ pistols. Seating just a touch shorter solved the issues and I've had no trouble since.
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Old July 13, 2010, 12:12 AM   #9
Jim243
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Same issue with the 9mm XTP used in 357 Sig National Match barrel. Switched to RMR 124 Grain JHP that is 0.001 smaller width.

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Old July 13, 2010, 04:34 AM   #10
dmazur
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Quote:
minimum case length for the .45 acp is .888"
Sierra shows 0.893" for a trim-to length. This isn't COL, of course.

For a 240gr JHC I see a COL of 1.185" in a Sierra reloading manual. So 1.200" isn't an outlandish COL for a 240gr hollowpoint.

The Hornady data, of course, is for their XTP.

I tend to agree with rwilson452. If you've reduced case volume, be careful with max loads.
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Old July 13, 2010, 02:16 PM   #11
eviltravis
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The cronograph and I took some of the new rounds to the range.


230 gr. HP/xtp
7 grains of power pistol averaged in the 930's with a c.o.l. of 1.20
6.5 gr. Of power pistol was in the 870's at 1.20.

I've loaded some at 6 grains and will try them tonight.
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Old July 13, 2010, 02:50 PM   #12
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I expect this is a tolerance problem. If the bullets are even slightly generous, say, .4512" diameter rather than the nominal .4510", it follows that barrels made with no real freebore will often be narrow enough so that this will cause the bullets to jam the throat. If you want, have a gunsmith just touch the throat with a .45 ACP throating reamer. That will give you a short, round freebore and tend to make for less fouling with lead bullets anyway.
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Old July 18, 2010, 05:29 PM   #13
dmazur
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I just had a similar problem with Hornady 230gr XTP's in an Officer's Model. No trouble in 2 different Commander length 1911's.

The more rounded profile of some other hollowpoints works OK, and factory FMJ works OK.

Rainier plated 230gr RN also caused some trouble. Profile isn't as "round" as the FMJ's I'm used to.

This was with Chip McCormick magazines in all three 1911's, with the "parallel" feed lips.

The slightly nonstandard bullet profile appears to try to make the cartridge rise out of the magazine too soon, before it can clear the feed lips.

Seating slightly shorter solved the problem with both bullets. (XTP's at 1.200", Rainier RN at 1.260")

Magazines with tapered feed lips may also solve the problem, but I didn't try that...
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Old July 19, 2010, 10:51 AM   #14
eviltravis
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I've loaded some speer gold dots. They fit in the chambers of my 1911 and my hk45 perfectly. I think I will shoot up the hornadys and just buy the speer bullets in 45 from now on.

I was able to get the hp/xtp bullets to work by pushing them in to 1.20 and reducing the powder charge, but I don't really fell comfortable seating those bullets back so far. I'm not really ready to have my bores reamed to accept some funky shaped bullets either. This is all part of the learning process I suppose. Thanks again to everyone for the input.
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Old July 19, 2010, 03:02 PM   #15
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It's sort of odd to me that Hornady made the profile of the XTP with such a sharp transition from full diameter to the tip. It has caused me problems with 9, 40 and 45. I end up making the rounds a little shorter than I'd really like to, no problems from this, but still why? Speer Gold Dots, Remington Golden Sabres, are just as good (better really) than the XTP and have very FMJ like profiles with a hollow point and both function in just about any gun. I like Hornady, shoot tones of them, but the XTP just stinks on ice. IMHO
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Old July 19, 2010, 08:20 PM   #16
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I noticed that Lee and Nosler only list the case length of 0.898" and no trim length. Sierra, Hornady and Hodgdon list a length of 0.893". While Accurate,Lyman 49, Barnes and Speer list a trim length of 0.888". To add to the confusion Lyman Cast 3rd ed. list a trim length of 0.895", but a few new cases I measured from Top Brass and some once fired are not even that long in 45 acp. I would have a pistolsmith take a look at the guns.
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Old July 20, 2010, 09:33 AM   #17
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You need to taper crimp.
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Old July 20, 2010, 10:03 AM   #18
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Para Cassatt,

0.898" is the SAAMI maximum. SAAMI minimum is 0.888". Trim lengths are usually in the middle of the tolerance range, and manufacturer's cutoff saws are not as precise as handloader's trimmers, so they vary in that range. Be aware that .45 ACP runs at pressures too low to stick the brass to the case wall, so they don't stretch. Indeed, they can actually shorten with repeated reloading.
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Old July 22, 2010, 10:10 PM   #19
Para Cassatt
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Thanks Unclenick,

I looked into it while experiencing taper crimp issues loading some 380's and the shorter ones were not getting much if any and I had to lower the die a little for the shorter ones. I do plan on trimming all to a uniform length(.892- .893) to eliminate the need to set aside the short ones for later crimping moving forward. I have heard mention that many don't trim the 45acp at all. What do you recommend?
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Old July 22, 2010, 10:31 PM   #20
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I believe taper crimp dies are less sensitive to case length. At least, I've found that to be true when reloading .45 ACP. And, no, I don't trim .45 ACP. So, if you don't have a taper crimp die for .45 ACP, I'd get one. It's probably worth it to avoid trimming a ton of brass.

.44 Magnum is something completely different, if "full house" loads are involved. I trim everything to a uniform length (once) so the roll crimps are consistent. I haven't had to trim a second time.

Others with more experience can probably add to this...
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Old July 22, 2010, 10:50 PM   #21
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I'll look into the taper crimp die. Thanks.
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