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Old June 6, 2010, 04:33 AM   #1
usnavdoc
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a Trust question

so I want to set up a silencer on my AR. I currently live in Ga, but the county I live in is notorious for not signing off on the paperwork. So I would have to do a trust.

The thing is I may in the next year move to TN or Tx. Both allow Class 3 but I am wondering how the trust works if you move to another state. I know you have to somehow notify the ATF, but do you have to start another trust in the new state? I am just wondering if I should wait until things settle out.
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Old June 6, 2010, 08:46 AM   #2
SpeedLoader
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I also live in GA. What county are you in??
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Old June 7, 2010, 08:02 AM   #3
Skans
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This is a good question. When you make your trust, I'd recommend that you use a lawyer familiar with setting up trusts, since you will want it to be valid in several states. Since trusts are governed by individual state law, this might be a little ticky for someone who is using a "form" trust.

You should not need a new trust just because you move to a different state so long as its valid in the state you are moving to. You will have to officially notify BATFE of your move and new residence. BATFE may require that you notify the CLEO in the county you are moving to that you have a registered NFA item in a trust. Just call BATFE about their procedures on this to make sure, but that's what I recall. Rules change and I could be wrong - so you really should check this out.
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Old June 12, 2010, 11:06 PM   #4
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My trust was set up by an attorney familiar with the laws and he told me it was fine in any state I went to, as long as the state laws did not preclude the ownership of NFA items. The trust is set up under Federal laws so unless there's a local ordinance prohibiting the ownership of the weapon, you should be good to go.

This is predicated on the attorney drawing up the trust knowing what he's doing. I would never recommend using Willmaker or another "stock" computer program. There's just too much at stake.
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Old July 3, 2010, 08:04 PM   #5
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I know several people that used the various software to create their trust. They all passed the BATF requirements. These programs are written to comply with all state and federal requirements. They are not state specific software.
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Old July 12, 2010, 09:28 AM   #6
Skans
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Quote:
The trust is set up under Federal laws so unless there's a local ordinance prohibiting the ownership of the weapon, you should be good to go.
This is not correct. To my knowledge, there are no federal laws governing the establishment of trusts - if someone thinks I'm wrong, I'd like to know the name of that federal law. Each state has its own laws on trusts. Also, don't confuse IRS regs, rulings, etc. governing taxes as "federal law on trusts". It's not - all the IRS cares about is what they can tax.

Also, it's generally State law that can prohibit the ownership of full auto guns. I've never seen any local ordinances restricting ownership of full auto guns, but some may very well exist.

Each state has a section of laws specifying what is a valid trust in that state. Many states have similar or somewhat uniform requirements as to the validity of a trust. But, when you move from one state to another, it's a good idea to have a knowledgable lawyer in the state you are moving to glance over your trust to make sure that it is valid in that state.

Personally, I think that those folks that are using computer generated trusts just to get around the CLEO sign-off requirements are playing with fire. If you can get a CLEO sign-off - avoid using a trust. Now, I'm NOT saying that I wouldn't use a trust, IF it was the only way for me to own a machinegun due to a lame-brained CLEO who won't sign off - I probably would. But, I'd set up a trust that was state-specific to where I lived and I would make sure that I have other stuff other than just one machinegun (or silencer) in that trust. That way it wouldn't be so easy for my state to pass a law simply declaring all trusts set up for holding NFA items invalid - mine would be harder to disqualify because it was done for legitimate estate planning reasons.

The bottom line is this - if it's too easy, it ain't gonna last. Eventually the government finds a way to make it make things more difficult...the IRS is an expert at this.

Last edited by Skans; July 12, 2010 at 09:50 AM.
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Old July 13, 2010, 12:44 AM   #7
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I should clarify my post. I have homes in 2 different states and a son who lives in another state. My trust was set up to comply with the laws in all three states. You are right in that there are no federal laws that regulate NFA trusts, and they need to conform to each state in which you might want to take the weapons.

I agree completely that it's "penny wise and pound foolish" to use a standard program like Willmaker to create an NFA trust. There's just too much at stake if there's a problem down the road and suddenly you're found to have an invalid trust. "Poof" go your weapons and possibly your fredom.
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Old July 13, 2010, 07:39 PM   #8
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long story short

Have your lawyer set up your trust in your state, fill out your form 4 and mail it in, get your stamp and enjoy your can. When it gets time to move states make sure the new state allows SBRs, MG, CANs or whatever you have and fill out a 5320.20 and mail it in to show your permanent change of address. get the approval back for ATF and you are done with it. do the same if you are just visiting another state. MAKE SURE THEY ALLOW YOUR CLASS 3 ITEMS!
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Old July 16, 2010, 09:26 PM   #9
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Austin, there is no such thing as a Class III item.
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Old July 16, 2010, 11:24 PM   #10
Austin Cowart
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oh

wow now that a contribution to this thread! OP, dont call it class 3 or the hall monitor will get ya!
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Old July 17, 2010, 09:38 PM   #11
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In this business, people being incorrect is a way of life. Being wrong and staying wrong are two completely different things.
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