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Old July 11, 2010, 03:15 AM   #26
MO. Shootin
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Dog owners are always saying he won't bite you while an animal is doing everything in its power to attack you.

I am not kidding you a bit. My dad and his friend went to do an estimate on a job and as they got out of there truck a woman came out with a rotweiler and the dog imediatly became aggressive so they stopped and stood by the truck. The woman said oh he won't bite you while she grabbed his collar then that dog charged dragging that woman accross her yard eventualy on her stomach while they got in the truck and left.
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Old July 11, 2010, 04:12 AM   #27
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The last time that I answered a Dog question. I got mobbed. So Ill stay out of this one.
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Old July 11, 2010, 04:44 AM   #28
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If I thought the dog was gonna attack I would draw on the dog and see what happens. Both times I had drew a pistol to shoot a dog its like the dog knew what was comming next and turned tail.
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Old July 11, 2010, 05:21 AM   #29
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I'm with Booker T on this one. As civilians, we carry heat for situations that present themselves which cannot be avoided. We do not have CCWs for the purpose of getting our way, come hell or high water.

Maybe, though the dog's owner was clearly unable to restrain his pet and was irresponsible, how does that give one moral ground to cause the situation to escalate further?

To the OP - No offense, just my take on it...and I wasn't there so I can't say what it felt like standing in your shoes nor how I would have actually handled it.
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Old July 11, 2010, 06:51 AM   #30
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I'm kind of curious if you would have continued to get closer to the dog if you hadn't had the gun?
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Old July 11, 2010, 09:59 AM   #31
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Well remember we are only talking a matter of 20 yards, it was only a matter of time before the dog was going to see us any how. We decided that our best bet for fishing was to get past them and move on. At about 10 yards the dog became aggressive but by this time the water was up to our wast and we did not feel like we could back out. We tried to get to the other bank but the more we moved the more agitated the dog became. I understand the don't go walking into a bad situation But as I sit here and think about it we were kinda stuck in the situation the minute we hit the water. Whether or not I had a side arm we pretty much had to go down stream. The only thing I think of is that two people who were not as experienced in wading and fishing probably should not have been in that water trying to fish, a small mistake on my part and my brothers I will admit. But ultimately I think the dog owner had a responsibility to have his dog under control. In some areas it may be legal for a dog on public land to be without a leash but in most areas of Idaho we have leash laws and most counties are leash counties in our area, meaning you need to keep your animal on a leash. Besides as a responsible citizen if you have a dog who behaves in such a way it is your duty to keep such an animal under control or to not bring it out on public land like that.
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Old July 11, 2010, 10:13 AM   #32
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Suppose the guy got his dogs in his car and called the local minions of the law. If he tells them a couple of guys pulled a gun on him and theatened him, describing the guys and the gun, what do you suppose would have resulted ?
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Old July 11, 2010, 12:23 PM   #33
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i'm sorry

for the drift but i have this image of briandg in a pepper spray vs skunk spray contest!
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Old July 11, 2010, 12:25 PM   #34
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You could always carry a couple hot dogs or a steak trimming in your fly fishing vest.. that pit bull will become your new best friend in 5 seconds flat. haha
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Old July 11, 2010, 12:40 PM   #35
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So now we are leaning towards if you have animals then you have more rights than the next guy, or maybe we have a duty to retreat from aggressive animals? Hogwash.

What are you Booker, a prosecuting attorney? You've given the iiresponsible citizen with the aggressive dogs more rights than the fisherman. You sit there what-if'ing that he could have done anything so that the vicious dogs and idiots can have thier way. You wasn't there to witness the doggies teeth bared at you.

You have the fisherman under duty and in the wrong. Bah! How dare you want to fish where there is other peoples aggressive animals? Very poor response.
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Old July 11, 2010, 01:58 PM   #36
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well Hook I will tell you exactly what happened, He came looked for about 5 seconds, asked my dad about us and promptly left. In our state when they run your car plate it comes back if you have a CCW permit so if he ran my plates while he was there then he would have known who the guy in the Cabela's waders were and that I was the one who likely had the gun. But instead of waiting for me or trying to find me he left.
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Old July 11, 2010, 04:45 PM   #37
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Moving to water deep enough to get the dog’s feet off the ground is a sound move. Much of a dog’s advantage in a fight is speed and mobility. A swimming dog is extremely vulnerable in comparison to one on it’s feet … even the ones designed for swimming like labs. This is one of the few situations that I’d probably pull a knife over a pistol if I had both … mainly for the "legal hassles" … no doubt that the dog was attacking because of the range involved, didn’t want to kill it and the knife was a last resort, etc. … and all that rot.
The pistol would be more for the dog owner ... if he turned belligerent.

Depending on what you’re fishing with, the pole and bait can be an optional non-lethal control rod for a swimming dog. A fly rod and some baits would be useless, but some rigs can be effective. Take it from someone that snagged the snout of a swimming dog with a Lucky 13 (three treble hooks) on a 6 foot fiberglass rod with about 6 inches of 27 lb. test spiderwire let out… steer him wherever you want, just keep the rod bowed a little … and don’t let him come straight down the rod at you (could break the rod). The owner was a bit upset till I told him the vet bill would be a lot cheaper than what I’d sue him for if the dog had gotten to me. The dude also got a funny look when I asked him which vet he was taking the dog to so we could call ahead and have the guy expecting the dog … and so I’d know where to pick up my favorite fishing plug. (also told the vet to feel free to cut any hooks he needed to, but not the body itself).

It may be a little bit "hick" to be concerned about the plug, but hey! … We’re talking a glass-eyed 7/8 oz. Hand-painted sunflower-pattern Lucky 13 here ! … and it wasn’t my dog.

(edit to correct weight of plug)
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Old July 11, 2010, 10:02 PM   #38
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Being that the OP said the dog would have to come into the water to get him.... the chances of that are SLIM unless it was a trained attack dog.

I vote for post #6. Use the brain 1st. More than one way to skin a cat as they say.

And unless its a highly trained attack dog, you can defeat it with out a gun.

I'm not a big guy and was smaller at 14-15 yrs old when I got in the middle of my doberman and spaniel fighting. The doby turned and went after me. Lunged at my midsection and got me on the stomach.While the dog was in motion I grabed both sides of her neck by the skin (right below the ears) and lifted the dog straight up off the ground and held it there. It that position, the dog cat really bite you.

Granted... it went well and that always doesnt happen. Point is... even a large shepard is 100lb max. It wont want to attack in the water.

I tend to think of myself as smarter, stronger, and more capable than a 100 lb dog in a couple feet of water.
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Old July 11, 2010, 11:43 PM   #39
animal
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If the dog comes swimming out making "I wanna eat you up noises", you got a problem whether it’s trained to attack or not. If he does that, you can be guaranteed of a bite if he gets close enough. Having a firm footing when he doesn’t is a big advantage. Go deeper, and you lose your advantage.

A dog won’t usually go out into the water past having a good footing and being trained as an attack dog doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with it. If he does that, something has ticked him off enough to make him decide to attack and who knows what that was … The thing might freak at the sight of a fishing pole because some neighborhood kid teased him with one, or the silly hat you’re wearing might trip some other trigger.
Freaky wierdness happens sometimes, and dogs can be freaky and weird sometimes. I can’t imagine faulting a guy for firing on a dog grunting and growling while swimming towards him no matter what caused the dog to do it. It might make me wonder about a guy that shoots the dog while it’s still on shore… if for no other reason, a swimming dog is a much slower, easier to hit target.

Dunno what set off the one I face-snagged, and he didn’t give up right away either .. had to lead him back and forth and dunk his head a couple of times before he decided to go back to his owner. Only then did I release enough line to let him go back to shore This thing was a big ugly mean mutt. Sorta lab-ish with a blocky square head like a pitt After observing and talking to the owner, I’d bet the dog had NO training at all.

Imo, going to waist-deep water filters out the bluffing dog and gives you a great advantage over the determined attacker (determining the threat level and simultaneously choosing the battlefield). After that, weapon choice, usage, etc. are just tactics for stopping a clear and present danger.
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Old July 12, 2010, 06:25 AM   #40
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Moving to water deep enough to get the dog’s feet off the ground is a sound move. Much of a dog’s advantage in a fight is speed and mobility. A swimming dog is extremely vulnerable in comparison to one on it’s feet
Both sides have expressed good points so far. I think if the water was deeper than the sheppard was tall you shouldn't have pulled but rather explained to the dog owner of your fear and ask him to leash the pet until you pass. The dog cannot cover 20 yards before you can draw and fire in water that he must swim in. So drawing early was not needed.

Just remember that we should only use the firearm if no other sensible option is available however inconvenient and or wrong the actions of others is.
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Old July 12, 2010, 07:37 AM   #41
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I'm sorry. I had to register just to reply to this post. Assuming all that you say is true: There are two people with the dogs. You have long sticks. You are in a river. The dog is charging/barking at you.

If the owners where genuinely unconcerned about the dog attacking you and making no effort to call the dog back then:

1)I imagine that you have had very little to do with dogs and that you mistook the dogs intentions. Lots of dogs bark and "charge" (it's not really charging) when they meet strangers or are letting off excess energy after a long drive etc. Its just playing.

2)If you were scared of the dog attacking you why did you continue to move closer? Why did you not call out to the owners to restrain the dog or to ask if it was dangerous like a normal person would do? No need to be unfriendly about it, just holla to them politely like anyone else.

3)If you are in a river and the dog is charging you and you can see it's hair sticking up then the dog is not in the river. Dogs cant run in water if its any deeper than their paster joint (knee). Anyone that takes their dogs to the water will tell you they get wet all over strait away. Their hair will not stand up if it is wet.

4)There are very few dogs around that will not **** off if you belt them around the face with a long thin stick (ie your fishing pole).

Having grown up and lived with many farm and pig hunting dogs all my life I have never come across a dog I couldn't deal with with my bare hands. I'm not trying to brag here or sound tough. The closest a dog has ever come close to getting the better of me was a doberman-rottweiler cross that very nearly out weighed me (I'm a pretty small guy at 155lbs). Its a fairly simple idea to get around that humans > dogs. Dogs have a a few very sensitive and fragile areas (nose, muzzle, brisket).

I would have first: called to the owner (assuming the dog was being truely aggressive). This will not cause the dog to become any more aggressive despite what other "experts" have said on this thread. If the owner makes no reply or is unable to call the dog back I would

second: Ignore the dog but hold my ground. This will normally diffuse the dogs aggression. Don't run away, walk closer or turn your back. This will cause the opposite.

third: If at this point the owners have not entered the shin deep water (there isn't a dog on the planet that is dangerous while it's swimming) to control the dog and it actually comes in for an attack smack it with your big ol' stick.

fourth: Failing this charge to meet the dog. If it jumps at you and you are motionless and upright then it will knock you down it's big enough. It's relying on this. It cant hold onto you with it's legs or feet. It will at worst scratch you as it falls off and at best not jump at all when it sees you charge.

fifth: If the dog knocks you down. If it was me I would attack the dogs nose if it was accessible or pull the dogs front legs apart from each other if it was not. The first will cause the dog a lot of pain and disorientation and the second will kill the dog by tearing it's brisket and causing massive damage to it's heart and lungs. If at this time your brother and the two owners are still standing there like cactuses with faces drawn on them and you cant overpower the dog then shoot it.

I would never just draw down on a dog acting in a threatening manner for fear of being shot by it's owners. They have crazy dogs. The are probably crazy too. If they are not crazy then there would be no problem as they would have called the dog back which is what it sounds like happened. Stop over reacting. Calm the **** down. It's just a dog.
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Old July 12, 2010, 08:31 AM   #42
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I would go up to the dog and bite him on the face and show it who is Alpha around these parts! I have always been told I was raised by wolves!
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Old July 12, 2010, 08:33 AM   #43
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If the dog has raised hair on its back and is barking and charging, you better believe that I'm going to pull my gun out, have my trigger finger ON THE TRIGGER (since it's double action), and aimed at the dog. Then, instead of screaming out to the owner, I'd try a few friendly gestures at the dog to get him to see that I am not a threat...."Hey, boy...it's alright....".

I'd wait until I was certain that the dog was going to try to attack, bite, etc. If that happened I'd fire a couple of shots center of mass.

It's pretty stupid to unleash several dogs in an area where you obviously see there are other people, and can obviously hear one of your dogs preparing to attack. Stupid dog owners end up with dead dogs.....too bad for the dog's sake.
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Old July 12, 2010, 08:52 AM   #44
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I just love dogs too much to shoot first and ask questions later. I'd probably pet it and alleviate the aggression
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Old July 12, 2010, 10:30 AM   #45
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Edward; I hold everybody in the situation responsible.. for themselves AND their treatment of other living things. In a public area where dogs off-leash is legal, the dog owners have the same and equal rights to use of the land. Respect them and they will likely respect you as well.

In fact, by making the choice to carry, the OP is immediately accepting greater responsibility. I think most will agree with that. Ask the question, what would they have done if they were not carrying? If the answer isn't submit to a painful injury/death, then use of a gun probably wasn't required.

There are two sides to every story. I bet in some dog-forum there's a post about "..these two backwoods fishermen pulled a custom Ed Brown race gun on my Shih tzu!!"

As the majority of posters have agreed, a gun is not the solution to the problem listed. If you feel otherwise, then maybe going out in public isn't the best idea. Stay at home and you'll be fine. Best of luck and watch your 6.

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Old July 12, 2010, 10:56 AM   #46
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I understand what you are trying to say but they didn't draw down on a ****z zu and being in an area that allows dogs off leash doesnt mean that you do not have to control your animals.

I never said that a gun was the solution to the problem. So now I should stay at home because you and your dogs mught be up there? Don't go out in public? What an ass you are sir to suggest such a thing.

It's like I said, you give more rights to the dogs and idiots than to people who may be there wanting to do things besides make it thier responsibility to not get attacked by your dogs.

The dog is not the dominant species in the field. Man is. If one man wont control the dog then the other man must do what he has to do to be safe.
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Old July 12, 2010, 11:00 AM   #47
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And ... that'll be enough of that.

Make your points without insulting others.

Closed.

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