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Old July 1, 2010, 09:58 PM   #1
BerettaCougar
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Tampa/Federal response to two slain officers

This thread is in no way/shape/form intended to down play the sheer callousness of the recent murder of two of Tampa's finest. The animal responsible needs to be caught and put away in a hole for the rest of his life.

This thread is intended to point out the only thing I am kind of disappointed in; I have never seen a city respond in this manner to anything. I'm sure the citizens of NYC or other cities that faced some major catastrophe have seen this (or worse).

If any other residents of the Tampa Bay area read this, please chime in.

I've seen more federal agencies (alphabet soup - you name it, they are in Tampa to help support the effort of catching the man responsible of murdering two Tampa police officers in cold blood)

Why can't they respond to ALL murders this way? Why is one life worth more than the other? If this much effort is put into more cases we might have a safer (insert city name here).

To further add to this thread lets also discuss why the suspect was allowed to leave a prison while having warrants? A major loop hole may have cost two families the highest price, and the city two outstanding police officers.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/jul...on-despite-fe/

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Old July 2, 2010, 07:44 PM   #2
KyJim
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Why can't they respond to ALL murders this way? Why is one life worth more than the other? If this much effort is put into more cases we might have a safer (insert city name here).
One life is not worth more than another. However, it is unrealistic to expect a maximum, full-court press on each one due to constraints on resources. There are two reasons for the maximum effort here. The first is that fellow officers are involved. The second is that the murders are not simply the murder of individuals, they are attacks on the authority of the government. It is justifiable to punish someone more severely for throwing a rotten tomato at the president than at the average person. It's not just the person being attacked, it's the institution.
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Old July 2, 2010, 08:46 PM   #3
Glenn Dee
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NO ONE SHOULD GET AWAY WITH MURDER!!!


No one's life is worth more or less than any other's life. Although insurance actuaries may say different.

Having been in this position more times than I want to remember... In my experience... When a police Officer is killed in the line of duty, it's like any family suffering a sudden loss. There is hurt, regret, guilt, and surprisingly little anger. Officers involved in the periphial get more angry than the slain officers imediate squad, or unit. So a family member is slain... The remaining family wants to do something about it. Only this family is equiped with shields, guns, knowledge of law, and summary arrest powers.

I dont know what the feds would bring to the table. Except maybe enough money to buy information. I dont know what jurisdiction the feds have in a local murder case other than laboratory/forensics support. IMO this is a dangerous thing.

No citizens life is worth less than any police, or law enforcement officers life. Most of the guys I've worked with investigate every murder with the same attention to detail, and adherence to rule of law on high profile cases, as they do a nobody. Homicide investgators tend to believe that no matter what NO ONE GETS AWAY WITH MURDER!!!
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Old July 2, 2010, 09:34 PM   #4
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Though none will likely fess up to it, it's not to be denied that many, perhaps most, LEO's view themselves as superior to, and more valuable than, "civilians" in general. When a LEO dies in the line of duty, it's reflexive (and understandable) that they tend to take special effrontery. After all, their jobs tend to bring them into close contact with folks that most in polite society wouldn't ever want to be near. In order to conduct their duties, they almost have to adopt the "it can't happen to me" mindset, and when fellow officers are killed, it makes maintaining that mindset all the more difficult.

All of this is, in my opinion, quite understandable and predictable - and most of us would behave similarly in the same circumstances.
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Old July 2, 2010, 11:26 PM   #5
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Unequal Response?

If two other law abiding citizens had been gun downed, in the early morning, would this massive manhunt be taking place?
I'm doubting it.
I hate hearing about anyone getting killed like this. But I wonder why some get a million dollar manhunts and others are lucky to have a part time detective assigned to investigate.
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Old July 3, 2010, 05:59 AM   #6
Glenn Dee
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CSMSS

Sir... While I respect your opinion, I believe you to be way off mark. If you'd like to compare the difference in response to a police shooting victim to a civilian shooting victim. Look no further than the Media. There (in my experience) is a massive response to any homicide. It may just not be as news worthy. The largest difference is the hurt, shocked grieving family (Fellow officers) have no privacy from the media. The Officers imediate family is described in detail about the young wife, and four children the officer leaves. More often than not the tragedy of a civilian death at the hands of a violent perpetrator dont sell soap therefor has less value to the media.

There is a massive response to any armed perpetrator at large. Swat call out's, a lot of officers responding to a scene, K9 units searching. Often you may see an equal effort for a missing child.

Do police react differently to an officer victim than the average civilian vicrim?... Of course they do. But the reaction is the same as any extended family would be if a member was lost to a violent perpetrator(s). The difference being. This family is armed with a shield, a gun, Knowledge of law, and summary arrest powers.

The only other difference is Politics. The violent death of a Police Officer is considered newsworthy. So with the media, come the media whores. Politicians in, and out of uniform who use a tragic event to get some camera face time. They make statements like "WE WILL NOT REST UNTIL THESE PERPETRATORS ARE CAUGHT" or the ever popular " WE WILL HUNT THEM DOWN AND BRING THEM TO JUSTICE"... Etc, Etc, Etc. Everyone wants to be on TV.

The truth is... NO real detective will ever rest (for lack of a better word) until every murder victim has had justice done on their behalf. In fact Solving the murder of a police officer is a lot like solving the murder of anyone else. Leg work, information, forensic investigation, attention to detail, and adhearence to the law.

Once again this is based on my own experiences, and that of those I have worked with, and learned from. I'm sure of my opinions because I've been there more times than I care to remember.


Glenn Dee.
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Old July 3, 2010, 06:31 AM   #7
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A BG who's willing to kill a cop is arguably more dangerous than the average BG and deserves a heightened response....
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Old July 3, 2010, 06:26 PM   #8
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Equal Response

There have been several police shootings in the Tampa Bay area in the last twenty years. UMM maybe ten, way too many. And there have been UMM about a hundred not all of them innocent probably only ten percent of them were. How many murders are cleared? How many police murders are cleared?
I know all about the statistics don't lie and liars can do the math saying. All I'm saying is that the authorities should equal out the effort/expense investigating all murders.
I'll say it again I hate that anyone gets killed, period, I do not care where they work.
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Old July 3, 2010, 06:37 PM   #9
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Where this happened was only 5 blocks away from my old house. Right between Highland Pines and Grant Park, both of which are not very nice neighborhoods.

I called down there to some friends that still live in the area and they said police and sheriff deputy presence has gone up substantially.
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Old July 3, 2010, 06:53 PM   #10
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Well, the murderer, Dontae Morris, has turned himself in without incident. He is being charged with (4) murders and is a "person of interest" in another. I work very close to the incident's location and the police response has been unprecedented IMO. (2) Tampa detectives came into our shop yesterday to hang a wanted poster and both were wearing ammo vests with many AR-15 mags around their midriff. They looked like terrorist bombers. Morris will surely get the cocktail.
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Old July 3, 2010, 07:13 PM   #11
Garybock
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COPS

The two dead guys are cops - that is why the reponse is different. Say it out loud - the two dead guys are cops.

The killer turned himself in after his "associate" negotiated his surrender to secure the cop killer's associate the $ 100K reward.
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Old July 3, 2010, 07:32 PM   #12
P5 Guy
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Employer

Why does that matter more than Clerk?
He shot two Clerks, say it again OUT LOUD, he killed two Clerks.
It still is "the worst" thing to die on any job and to be killed adds to the suck.

I'm sorry, but I value all lives equally, even killers. My Creator said I should. And Sworn Civilians are no different from Civilians are no different from Politicians, are no different from you and me.
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Old July 3, 2010, 07:59 PM   #13
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P5 Guy, you've made your point of view clear. It's simply a fact of life, especially here in America. You kill a police officer and many more LE agencies will be hunting for the killer; compared to the average, below average and above average citizen. It's simply a fact all understand, probably around the world. Except you.
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Old July 3, 2010, 08:21 PM   #14
P5 Guy
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I happy to be different there are more of my kind I'm sure.

So now that you have tired of my opinion I'll move on.
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Old July 3, 2010, 08:32 PM   #15
5.56RifleGuy
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I have to agree that someone willing to gun down two police officers would be more dangerous. If they are willing to shoot two police officers knowing the crazy response from the rest of the LE community, I dont think they would think twice about killing the average person.
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Old July 3, 2010, 11:58 PM   #16
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It is not that any one's life is more valued than another, but rather as noted, what the act symbolizes.
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Old July 4, 2010, 07:13 AM   #17
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A BG who's willing to kill a cop is arguably more dangerous than the average BG and deserves a heightened response....
Not necessarily so. You often get similar over responses to other types of events involving cops, though maybe not from other agencies. For example, if I call 911 for an intruder in my home, I might get more than one unit to respond to my home, maybe not. If a cop calls 911 and identifies himself and says officer needs assistance, every free cop for miles will respond.

If I get t-boned in an intersection and call 911, a cop will come and if s/he determines more help is needed, the s/he will radio for further assistance. If a cop gets t-boned in an intersection, every free cop for miles around will respond.

I don't think it is right or fair, but it does appear to be a perq of the job.
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Old July 4, 2010, 11:41 AM   #18
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And while I will admit that there is often an "us vs them" mentality (regrettably, but human) the fact is that the killing of police officers is more damaging to society than the killing of an ordinary "civilian". Note that Judges, high level politicians, and Federal poultry inspectors are considered to be more important than ordinary citizens as well.

Our basic concept of fairness says this should not be so, that everyone is equally important, and everyone should deserve the same response. But reality is somewhat different. And it is different because while we are all equal, some of us are more equal than others.

People holding official positions are more important (to society) than the rest of us. Not as individuals, but because they hold those positions. Don't like it if you must, but recognize it as fact, because it is.

Cops get killed doing their job, by criminals who are resisting to the ultimate degree. And sometimes they get killed on the job, just because they are on the job. The 4 officers killed this spring near Seattle were killed just because they were cops! It wasn't during an arrest attempt, the killer just walked into the coffee shop where they met before going on duty, and gunned them down. Other officers have met the same fate, for the same reason. Because of what they were, not who they were. And that makes the murder(s) an attack on all of us.

I dislike to use the term, because it is so overworked today, but the fact is that killers who target cops, because they are cops, are terrorists. And because they kill cops, they get more resources allocated, and much more visibly. To use an imperfect analogy, a crack in your house foundation is a problem. A crack in a dam is a potential disaster.
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Old July 4, 2010, 12:27 PM   #19
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So while most seem to think it is not fair that cops get more response and resources to themselves personally, it is the consensus that they are more important than us ordinary people? (I'm reaching...tring to comprehend this.)

I don't get it. I can't wrap my mind around I/we are to have so much respect for what cops are (even more than the men) that we are to hold them above all the small people? Sorry, no comprehendo. Police do not have a glowing track record in society in general where they are so respectable that they inspire my respect to that degree. Do not misunderstand and think that I am bashing cops because I am not. I'm just sayng that cops arent that great in society, there's too much corruption and bad image.

If you want to talk respectable profession then lets talk Firefighters or EMT's. They have no black clouds over thier profession and are quickly recognizable as more respectable in my mind.
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Old July 4, 2010, 06:11 PM   #20
Garybock
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COPS

I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. I do believe that fire fighters, police and military enjoy special treatment. These are the people that protect us. Not a special class but deserving special treatment. You will excuse me if I defend two young cops killed buy some one that has no value on human life, less maybe his own.

He turned himself in - NO. He negotiated a deal to assure an "associate" a $ 100K payday. What is up next for him?? I tell you right now - he'll plea guilty to save his tail from being fried in Ole Sparky. He'll get his 3 squares a day, internet and air conditioning. He'll loss his right to run around the country side, but I'll bet you my last 357 hollow point that this will serve his hate fill mind just fine.

Color me proud to stick up for those that help protect us.
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Old July 4, 2010, 06:27 PM   #21
BerettaCougar
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I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. I do believe that fire fighters, police and military enjoy special treatment. These are the people that protect us.
So a police officer's murder investigation should trump a child kidnapping?

In the days following the murder I saw US Border patrol, US Marshall's, US Customs, FBI, FDLE doing standard traffic stops and check points. If a fraction of this response is used when a child comes up missing, or other horrific tragedy to us "regular people" occurs, we WILL see more lives saved and safer communities.

There's a picture that was on an online article (that TBO changed) that showed a white unmarked mini van filled with SWAT styled officers driving around with the side door open checking out known locations of the suspect. I'd like to see this level of response the next time an amber alert goes out or the next time someone robs a bank, or the next time someone gets murdered...to say we don't deserve the same response then you're saying you're inferior, your kids are inferior, your brother is inferior, your father, mother, sister...all worth less than someone else who chooses to be employed by the XYZ police department.
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Old July 5, 2010, 02:39 PM   #22
P5 Guy
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That is What I Was Saying

But I got told to go away.

BerettaCougar said it better than I did, obviously.
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Old July 5, 2010, 05:36 PM   #23
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he'll plea guilty to save his tail from being fried in Ole Sparky.
Pleading guilty does not protect you from the death sentence. He would need a plea bargain to do that and I think that highly unlikely with the amount of evidence against him.

BTW, Ol' Sparky was retired several years ago. Florida uses lethal injection.
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