The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old July 2, 2010, 08:26 AM   #1
grampster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 15, 2001
Location: wilderness of west michigan
Posts: 192
NRA and Sen. Harry Reid

This morning I read on RedState that the NRA is contemplating/planning to endorse Sen. Harry Reid. This is beyond unfortunate. Some will say this is not so, but the information is reliable. See RedState today, 7-2-10, two posts in that regard.

I'm not an NRA basher. I am a Life Member and my father was a member before me. Our membership goes back 80 years or so. NRA needs to know that endorsing Reid must not, cannot happen.

Call the NRA-ILA hotline at 1-800-392-8683, press 3, and POLITELY and FIRMLY tell the ILA to NOT support Reid.
__________________
"The trouble with doing nothing is not knowing when to stop."
grampster is offline  
Old July 2, 2010, 08:44 AM   #2
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,598
If you saw the big spread they gave Sen. Reid in the American Rifleman, I don't think it is any suprise that NRA is planning to endorse him. He is pro-RKBA and an incumbent - which is usually all you need to get the NRA endorsement. The fact that he is the Senate Majority Leader and is virtually the only person in Democratic leadership who is both willing and able to block gun control legislation doesn't hurt him either.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old July 2, 2010, 12:12 PM   #3
BikerRN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2007
Location: "State of Discombobulation"
Posts: 1,333
Calling harry Reid Pro-Gun is like saying the Catholic Church condones abortion.

Quote:
Below are just a few of the votes that demonstrate Reid’s longstanding hostility to guns and the Second Amendment. Not included in this list is the long list of consistent and active support for anti-gun nominees to the Federal Judiciary and to high level cabinet posts. The reason I did not include anti-gun nominees is because he supported every last one of them.

June 28, 1991. Vote No. 115. Voted for a 5 day waiting period for handgun purchases.

October 21, 1993. Vote 325. Voted to eliminate the Army Civilian Marksmanship Program. Only the most fringe anti-gun Senators voted for the amendment.

November 19, 1993. Vote 385. Allow states to impose waiting periods over and above the 5 days waiting period required under the Brady Bill.

November 19, 1993. Vote 386. Voted to eliminate the 5-year sunset in the Brady Bill.

November 19, 1993. Vote 387. Voted to close off debate on the Brady Bill.

November 19, 1993. Vote 390. Voted to close off debate on the Brady Bill.

November 20, 1993. Vote 394. Voted for the Brady Bill, which imposed a 5-business-day waiting period before purchasing a handgun.

August 25, 1994. Vote 294. Voted to close off debate on the Clinton Crime Bill, which contained the ban on so-called “assault weapons.”

August 25, 1994. Vote 295. Voted for the Clinton Crime Bill, which contained the ban on so-called “assault weapons.”

April 17, 1996. Vote 64. Voted to expand the statute of limitations for paperwork violations in National Firearms Act from 3 years to 5 years.

June 27, 1996. Vote 178. Voting to destroy 176,000 M-1 Garand rifles from World War II, and 150 million rounds of 30 caliber ammunition, rather than giving them to the Federal Civilian Marksmanship program.

September 12, 1996. Vote 287. Voted to spend $21.5 million for a study on putting “taggants” in black and smokeless gunpowder.

September 12, 1996. Vote 290. Voted to make it a Federal crime to possess a gun within 1,000 yards of a school.

May 12, 1999. Vote 111. Voted to give the Treasury Department expansive new authority to regulate and keep records on gun shows and their participants, and criminalize many intrastate firearms transactions.

May 13, 1999. Vote 116. Voted to ban the importation of ammunition clips that can hold more than 10 rounds.

May 14, 1999. Vote 119. Voted to criminalize internet advertisements to sell legal firearms in a legal manner.

May 18, 1999. Vote 122. Voted to for Mandatory triggerlocks.

May 20, 1999. Vote 133. Voted to create new Federal regulation of pawn shops handling of guns.

May 20, 1999. Vote 134. Voted to give the Treasury Department expansive new authority to regulate and keep records on gun shows and their participants, and criminalize many intrastate firearms transactions. The vote was 50-50, with Vice President Gore casting the tie-breaking vote.

May 20, 1999. Vote 140. Voted for the Clinton Juvenile Justice bill, which contained a package of gun control measures.

July 29, 1999. Vote 224. Voted to close debate on the Clinton Juvenile Justice bill, which contained a package of gun control measures.

February 2, 2000. Vote 4. Voted to make firearms manufacturers and distributors’ debts nondischargeable in bankruptcy if they were sued because they unknowingly sold guns to individuals who used the gun in a crime. 68 Senators voted against Reid’s position, including 17 Democrats including Bryan of Nevada.

March 2, 2000. Vote 27. Voted to say that school violence was due to the fact that Congress “failed to pass reasonable, common-sense gun control measures” and call for new gun ownership restrictions on the anniversary of the Columbine shootings.

March 2, 2000. Vote 28. Voted to say that school violence was due to the fact that Congress “failed to pass reasonable, common-sense gun control measures” and call for new gun ownership restrictions on the anniversary of the Columbine shootings (reconsideration of vote 27).

March 2, 2000. Vote 32. Voted to use Federal taxpayer funds to hand out anti-gun literature in schools and to run anti-gun public service announcements.

April 6, 2000. Vote 64. Voted for a gun control package including new onerous restrictions on gun shows.

April 7, 2000. Vote 74. Voted against an amendment to provide for the enforcement of existing gun laws in lieu of new burdensome gun control mandates.

May 16, 2000. Vote 100. Voted to commend the participants of the so-called “Million Mom March” for their demand for more Federal restrictions on firearms ownership, and to urge the passage of strict gun control measures.

May 17, 2000. Vote 102. Vote to overturn the ruling of the chair that the Daschle amendment (commending the participants of the so-called “Million Mom March” for their demand for more Federal restrictions on firearms ownership, and to urge the passage of strict gun control measures) was out of order.

May 17, 2000. Vote 103. Voted against an amendment stating “the right of each law-abiding United States citizen to own a firearm for any legitimate purpose, including self-defense or recreation, should not be infringed.”

May 17, 2000. Vote 104. Voted for an amendment commending the participants of the so-called “Million Mom March” for their demand for more Federal restrictions on firearms ownership, and to urge the passage of strict gun control measures.

February 26, 2004. Vote 17. Voted for mandatory triggerlocks.

March 2, 2004. Vote 25. Voted for Federal regulation of gun shows.

July 28, 2005. Vote 207. Voted for mandatory triggerlocks.

March 5, 2009. Vote 83. Voted against a ban on the United Nations imposing taxes on American citizens after France and other world leaders proposed a global tax on firearms.
He doesn't seem too "pro-gun" to me, but what do I know?

Biker
BikerRN is offline  
Old July 2, 2010, 01:35 PM   #4
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,598
OK, I don't have time to go through every vote on the list; but let's just look at the four votes in the last 9 years:

Quote:
February 26, 2004. Vote 17. Voted for mandatory triggerlocks.

March 2, 2004. Vote 25. Voted for Federal regulation of gun shows.
It so happens I remember these two votes very well since they were offered as amendments to S.1805. For those who don't remember, S.1805 was the bill protecting manufacturers against spurious lawsuits. It was strongly backed by the NRA until Feinstein managed to attach an AWB renewal to it, at which point, the NRA swiftly and decisively killed the bill.

Reid voted in support of the Boxer triggerlock amendment (Vote 17) and the McCain gunshow background check amendment (Vote 25). I agree both of those votes are not pro-RKBA; however, what your list doesn't show is the several dozen pro-RKBA votes that Reid did make that day.

You can see the list of nasty amendments here with links to the votes. Most notably, Reid voted against the AWB renewal that day.

Quote:
July 28, 2005. Vote 207. Voted for mandatory triggerlocks.
Same bill Reid voted for earlier, with almost the same result - passed the Senate with 70 votes in favor of requiring manufacturers to provide a free child-safety lock with each handgun. Not a pro-RKBA vote, I'd agree; but hardly a big issue.

Quote:
March 5, 2009. Vote 83. Voted against a ban on the United Nations imposing taxes on American citizens after France and other world leaders proposed a global tax on firearms.
This has nothing to do with firearms. The entire text of the amendment is "None of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available under any title of this Act may be made available to make any assessed contribution or voluntary payment of the United States to the United Nations if the United Nations implements or imposes any taxation on any United States persons." Apparently GOA scored this as a "key vote" though.

So in the last nine years, Reid helped the NRA build a $61 million public range in Nevada, voted against the AWB renewal, for the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, and basically voted even the GOA platform except for the four votes noted above, Previous to that he had a record of anti-gun votes.

So now the choice for the NRA is:

1. Endorse the Senate Majority Leader and incumbent with 9 years of voting your platform (except the triggerlock and McCain gun show votes). Get points with the Senate Majority Leader regardless of which pro-gun candidate wins.

2. Endorse the challenger with no record and hope you trade a friendly Senate Majority Leader for a junior Senator in the minority party who has said really positive things about gun rights; because if they don't win, you've just stomped on the one guy in the current Congressional leadership who can block gun control legislation.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old July 2, 2010, 02:28 PM   #5
stevelyn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: Fairbanksan in exile to Aleutian Hell
Posts: 2,616
Being so-called pro-gun is a moot point if you vote for SCOTUS nominees that can unravel your pro-gun vote.

Sorry, I think the NRA is all wet on this one.
__________________
Herman Cain '12

Squished bugs on a windshield is proof the slow/heavy bullet theory works.
stevelyn is offline  
Old July 2, 2010, 02:43 PM   #6
kodiakbeer
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2010
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 791
Quote:
Being so-called pro-gun is a moot point if you vote for SCOTUS nominees that can unravel your pro-gun vote.
Ditto!
kodiakbeer is offline  
Old July 2, 2010, 03:08 PM   #7
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,598
Quote:
Being so-called pro-gun is a moot point if you vote for SCOTUS nominees that can unravel your pro-gun vote.
Which so far Reid hasn't done; but that will happen prior to the November election in any case and since NRA has stated that the nomination of Kagan will be considered a key vote, it will affect Reid's grade (and presumably any endorsement).

Quote:
Sorry, I think the NRA is all wet on this one.
I can see disagreeing with the NRA on the course of action based on what level of trust you put in Senator Reid's support of the RKBA post-election; but I really don't see how the NRA could have made any other choice here. You've got a senior politician and incumbent with a track record on your issue. No savvy lobbying organization is going to throw that away for a junior Senator who says all the right things.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old July 2, 2010, 03:39 PM   #8
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,103
If Reid falls, Schumer is a candidate to replace him. Sounds like a great plan.

Schumer and newbie. BTW, this is getting a little political, so let's watch it.

Perfect is the enemy of good enough - think about it. Or don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is online now  
Old July 2, 2010, 03:48 PM   #9
Musketeer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2005
Posts: 3,731
The GOA is looking to gain more members. I do not like Reid but in the last decade his record on the 2A is not bad (if you understand the votes and do not drink GOA) Kool Aid. In addition having the guy who helps control what comes to the floor is not a bad thing!

The GOA wants Don Quixote. Personally I would my membership and donations go elsewhere.
__________________
"Religions are all alike - founded upon fables and mythologies." Thomas Jefferson

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin
Musketeer is offline  
Old July 2, 2010, 03:52 PM   #10
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 2,018
In September, 2004 the US senate voted to extend the AWB, thanks to the help of ten folks with (R) after their names. Harry Reid voted against the extension of the AWB.

The NRA is about the Second Amendment. If you think the First Amendment is more important then join the ACLU.
thallub is online now  
Old July 3, 2010, 12:40 AM   #11
ADB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2009
Posts: 399
Quote:
The NRA is about the Second Amendment. If you think the First Amendment is more important then join the ACLU.
Where did the first amendment come into this? And why not join both?
ADB is offline  
Old July 3, 2010, 12:54 AM   #12
ADB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2009
Posts: 399
Quote:
This has nothing to do with firearms. The entire text of the amendment is "None of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available under any title of this Act may be made available to make any assessed contribution or voluntary payment of the United States to the United Nations if the United Nations implements or imposes any taxation on any United States persons." Apparently GOA scored this as a "key vote" though.
More to the point, it's absolutely idiotic. The UN is a deliberative body with no real legal authority to do more than point and yell. They certainly have no power to collect taxes from anybody.

These "bans" that some politicians introduce in response to these nonsense scares are like if I got into Congress and introduced a bill to ban sausage factories from using human organs as meat. Okay, that's fine, except that it's a problem which doesn't exist, and to say otherwise is a lie.
ADB is offline  
Old July 3, 2010, 07:18 AM   #13
The_Vigilante
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2008
Location: Far West Texas
Posts: 200
NRA and Sen. Harry Reid

Does anyone know how Reid voted on the confirmation of Sotomayor?
__________________
The_Vigilante
Keeping the streets safe!
A man can never own enough guns!
The_Vigilante is offline  
Old July 3, 2010, 10:31 AM   #14
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,103
Breakfast cereal is now popular because of sausages having workers and other critters in the mix. I think there were popular novels and reports at the turn of the century that demonstrated it. Now do you really think Harry voted against Sotomayer? Come on.

Life is a set of compromises but absolutist strategies can led to noble rants but little progress. Organizations have railed against CCW permits and CHL because you don't need them because of the Constitution. Such organizations have tried to sabotage concealed carry bills - sometimes successfully.

However, the concealed carry movement is the greatest success story in recent times. So have a rant and have no progress.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is online now  
Old July 3, 2010, 12:31 PM   #15
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 10,569
A sad choice...

When a pro gun politician is so far off on so many other things. Right now, Reid is being held as one of the major spending supporters/instigators in Congress. The conservative talk shows and etc, are all saying how bad govt spending is, and how Reid is one of the key players and must be replaced.

Yet, at the same time, it appears that he has been more of a help than a hindrance on gun issues. And the NRA (by charter and practice) is a single issue group. ALL they look at is gun issues, and things that directly and immediately affect gun issues and their ability to communicate about those issues to their membership (see the Disclosure Act discussions).

He may be working hard to bring about the wrack and ruin of the nation, but if he has a record of supporting gun rights, the NRA will support him, they don't have a real choice. They are a single issue group. Period.

Here is an extreme example: Would you support a candidate who wanted to abolish the ATF, the NFA 34, and all gun laws, but wanted to make child rape legal?

Tough call? or not?
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old July 3, 2010, 12:37 PM   #16
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,103
Stop asking philosophically hard questions - it makes my head explode - 44!

Obviously you vote for the candidate who supports open access to guns and then you have to march to Washington to get rid of said person using your 2 amendment solutions on the day after the election.

Now is that a logical and philosophical kettle of fish. Throws a monkey wrench into absolutism.

I once posted that folks tend to be absolutist about candidates because of the implicit assumption that the progun candidate will believe in other things they like. The test is yours - what if they are nuts or believe in other things you strongly dislike or is incompetent on the other major issues.

So as long as I have my gun, the rest of the country's problem can lead to disaster? Now could that happen?
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is online now  
Old July 3, 2010, 11:00 PM   #17
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 35,230
Pure politics, which we don't do here anymore.

Closed.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11571 seconds with 9 queries