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Old May 17, 2010, 02:49 PM   #1
booker_t
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Detroit PD Shoot & Kill 7-Year-Old Girl in Raid

Over the weekend, Detroit PD raided a house in search of a murder suspect. Two conflicting stories are currently under investigation, to determine what led to an officer's gun being fired and the bullet striking a 7-year-old girl in the head while she was sleeping on the living room couch and killed her. The murder suspect was in the house and apprehended.

One story is that once inside the house the officers were confronted with an irate woman who physically confronted an officer and he shot, either intentionally or accidentally. The other story is that after lobbing a flash grenade through the window, one officer shot into the house killing the girl.

I'm sure we'll be hearing more about this as the investigation goes forward and the facts become available.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news...h.Girl.Killed/ (includes video)
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Old May 17, 2010, 02:57 PM   #2
Bartholomew Roberts
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So what is the tie-in to Tactics or Training?
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Old May 17, 2010, 03:16 PM   #3
scorpiusdeus
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The absolute failure of both in this case? The need for more and better?

I imagine the tactics used by these officers and the training they received will be a HUGE part of the investigation.
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Old May 17, 2010, 03:31 PM   #4
Sefner
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Living near Detroit this is big news cuz of well... it's Detroit (I also would like to point out that when a 7 year old girl is killed by police, everyone in the community is up in arms about it but when a young girl or boy is killed by a gang member it's just another tragedy). The news is reporting more of the first story - that once inside the officers were confronted by a physically uncooperative women and that one shot was fired. The police report and an independent witness both confirm that the police announced their presence and ID'd themselves as police prior to entering. The victim's parents aren't really giving a story other than "they shot my daughter". They also said the police had the wrong house, which is interesting being that the suspect they were after was apprehended in that house.

The killing of the girl is a horrible tragedy and my thoughts and sympathy go out to the family.

To stay on topic: A few lessons:

1. When faced with a police raid cooperate fully and immediately.

2. Know your target and what is behind it (4th law).

3. In the heat of a conflict, be vary aware of the condition, direction, and position of your firearm. Protect it, a struggle over the firearm can lead and an accidental discharge.

Point 2 is obvious, and I say that because we don't know if the shot was fired intentionally or not. Point 3 is something I think we wouldn't think about, and I again say it because we don't know if the shot was fired intentionally or not.
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Old May 17, 2010, 03:57 PM   #5
mete
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37191818...me_and_courts/

A&E TV crew on the scene ?? Were the cops 'mugging ' for the camera ? I wish the :barf: media would stop trying to make the news and just report it !
In any case it's a terrible event for all and all the players will make it much worse.
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Old May 18, 2010, 06:44 AM   #6
booker_t
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BR, you're right I should have included this in the original post, rather than just left it open-ended with the story.

Quote:
So what is the tie-in to Tactics or Training?
The tie-in would be how the officer(s):

1) Planned their mission, including surveillance and intelligence about occupants of the house.

2) Executed that mission, including use of a flash-bang grenade

3) Method of entry, which did not overwhelm the occupants to protect their safety as well as the officers' safety

4) Method of handing confrontation and resistance

5) Officer's decision to draw his firearm rather than subdue the woman and cuff her for her own safety, what he said/didn't say, why his finger was on the trigger, and what he saw when he decided to pull the trigger (if intentional), and what he did immediately following discharge

6) What all the other officers were doing at the time

7) Response to the result (7-year-old girl bleeding from a gunshot to the head)

8) Transition to original mission to apprehend the suspect, or was that conducted in parallel?

9) Anything I left out? Maybe what happens to a trained (or under-trained, to tie in with the thread about PD Weapons Qualification) professional, and to the operational team as a unit, when all that training, planning, and intel goes down the toilet 3-seconds after the battle begins?

Last edited by booker_t; May 18, 2010 at 07:13 AM.
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Old May 18, 2010, 08:13 AM   #7
Sefner
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This case is getting a little more "interesting". The family's attorney claims the video filmed by the news crew show that the police threw a flashbang and then fired a single round into the house. Their attorney claims that the video shows that no altercation happened at all.

To answer some of Booker's questions (and all of this is preliminary and subject to investigation)

Use of a flash-bang: Some people are saying that flashbangs are not normally used when a child is likely to be present. The police could have been unaware of the possibility of the child being present or they could have deemed the situation still dangerous enough to use a flashbang. There is also a story being pushed by the parents that the flashbang burned their daughter when it went off. I've heard nothing further than that.

Method of Entry: The officers announced that they were police and then threw a flashbang. That much is agreed on by both sides. What happened next is not agreed on.

Officer's drawn firearm: It would be my understanding that during a raid like this the weapon is drawn and at the ready (not sure of safety condition). So the officer's weapon would have already been drawn (I'm assuming, this one could definitely change based on the investigation). According to the police report the woman stood in their way during entry and was physically uncooperative and engaged the officer. According to the report it was during this struggle that the firearm went off. Remember, the attorney for the parents claims that no struggle happened.

Response to girl's wound: According to the police report the response was immediate. She was "immediately" taken to the hospital.

Apprehending of suspect: The raided home was a duplex with and upper and lower level. The girl and her parents lived in the lower level and more relatives (aunt, etc) of the girl lived in the upper level. The criminal was in the upper level of the duplex and was apprehended. There were warrants for both levels.
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Old May 18, 2010, 10:57 AM   #8
Wagonman
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I hope we aren't rushing to judgement on this matter. The investigation needs to proceed before we can blame the Cops. Maybe the uncooperative woman needs a little culpability to say nothing of the offender who precipitated the incident.
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Old May 18, 2010, 12:04 PM   #9
Sefner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagonman
I hope we aren't rushing to judgement on this matter. The investigation needs to proceed before we can blame the Cops. Maybe the uncooperative woman needs a little culpability to say nothing of the offender who precipitated the incident.
I totally agree. A LOT of people here in MI (especially in the gun community) are pinning all the blame on the police. There are a lot of interesting holes in the family's story that aren't being talked about (not going to bring them up here cuz it's an investigation and it could all change tomorrow). All speculation on the case is based off of speculation of speculation.
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Old May 18, 2010, 12:23 PM   #10
Capt Charlie
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Quote:
All speculation on the case is based off of speculation of speculation.
And that's a problem here; speculation gets us nowhere. Tell ya what guys, I'm going to close this one until the facts come out.

When that happens, and if those facts include material worthy of discussion here, feel free to start a new thread.

Until then... closed.
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