The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 16, 2010, 04:04 PM   #1
SigP6Carry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1,086
Henry Survival Rifle

Ok, in Illinois you can't legally have a gun outside in the open or have it loaded. So, if I kept one of those Henry Survival Rifles packed into it's own stock in my car with a loaded magazine in the stock, would the gun be considered loaded? Or stored? Or what?

I'm not asking for any reason other than curiosity.

edit: this is the rifle http://world.guns.ru/civil/civ007-e.htm
__________________
-liberal gun nut = exception to the rule-
-1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes-
-Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-
SigP6Carry is offline  
Old May 16, 2010, 05:03 PM   #2
HarrySchell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2007
Location: South CA
Posts: 549
I dunno about IL, but in CA you would have trouble, I think. Ammo and a weapon can be in the same range bag, but the weapon must have a lock on it or be in a locked hard case. An alternative is to put the weapon the trunk with the ammo in the passenger compartment, but with handguns I use a lock hard case to avoid any possible trouble.

The impediment of having to assemble the weapon would not be enough here.

Seems like parts of IL are as itchy about things as CA is, maybe the reasoning has been applied there.
__________________
Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world — and never will.
— Mark Twain
HarrySchell is offline  
Old May 16, 2010, 05:36 PM   #3
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,883
As best I understand it, what you're describing is a gray area in IL law. Some years ago, it was somewhat popular to carry a semi-automatic handgun and a loaded but not inserted magazine both in a fanny pack. The issue was explained in some detail by another member here who happens to be an IL State Trooper (unfortunately, I can't remember his handle). As best I recall from his explanation, the issue was kind of left up to the discretion of individual departments or even individual officers. Apparently, the Attorney General at the time was asked to clarify but refused to do so out of fear that it might harm his political aspirations (I think the Atty General at the time was Jim Ryan but I could be mistaken).

I would think that what you're describing would probably be viewed differently depending on where in the state you are. If you're very close to Chicago, I wouldn't count on it being viewed too favorably.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old May 16, 2010, 06:52 PM   #4
Sefner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 769
In Michigan laws like that usually state you must store the firearm "separate from the ammunition". Having a loaded mag w/o one in the chamber would not count. Are you sure there isn't a similar law in IL?
Sefner is offline  
Old May 16, 2010, 07:18 PM   #5
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,883
Quote:
In Michigan laws like that usually state you must store the firearm "separate from the ammunition". Having a loaded mag w/o one in the chamber would not count. Are you sure there isn't a similar law in IL?
Illinois law does not prohibit transporting a firearm and ammunition in the same case so long as the firearm is not loaded. For example, transporting an unloaded revolver and a box of ammunition in a handgun case would be perfectly legal so long as the transporter has a valid FOID card, the firearm is not readily accessible, and no local laws are violated. The issue here is whether or not a loaded magazine constitutes a loaded firearm. Another issue that I can see with this particular instance is that the loaded magazine is "in" the gun even though it is not in a position that would allow the gun to operate. The mere fact that a loaded magazine is inserted into some part of the gun may be enough to be viewed as a loaded firearm.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old May 16, 2010, 07:48 PM   #6
SigP6Carry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1,086
So, it could be that if the stock of the weapon IS the carrying case. And the magazine is in the stock of the weapon, separate from the action/receiver/magwell the weapon could still be considered loaded under IL law?
__________________
-liberal gun nut = exception to the rule-
-1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes-
-Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-
SigP6Carry is offline  
Old May 16, 2010, 07:56 PM   #7
dsa1115
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 428
In Illinois the gun must be unloaded and in a case. In an interesting case recently, the Illinois Supreme Court ruled that a center console or glove box is considered a case. As it stands now, an Illinois resident with a valid FOID card can carry a unloaded pistol legally in the glove box or center console. This case can be referenced in .....The People vs Diggins
dsa1115 is offline  
Old May 17, 2010, 01:15 AM   #8
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,883
Quote:
So, it could be that if the stock of the weapon IS the carrying case. And the magazine is in the stock of the weapon, separate from the action/receiver/magwell the weapon could still be considered loaded under IL law?
The issue I see is whether or not the stock would be considered a case or part of the firearm. If it is considered the latter rather than the former, then you have just inserted a loaded magazine into a firearm, it may not matter that the firearm still can't operate. Basically, I think you'd be treading in a gray area that has too much potential to get one cuffed and stuffed for me to be comfortable trying it.

If this all seems rather silly, that's because it is. One thing I definitely don't miss about IL are some of the more Draconian gun laws.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is offline  
Old May 17, 2010, 07:02 AM   #9
NukemJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2002
Posts: 279
Quote:
In Illinois the gun must be unloaded and in a case. In an interesting case recently, the Illinois Supreme Court ruled that a center console or glove box is considered a case. As it stands now, an Illinois resident with a valid FOID card can carry a unloaded pistol legally in the glove box or center console. This case can be referenced in .....The People vs Diggins
I am not a lawyer nor LEO.

My limited understanding is that there are two different sections of the law regarding cases for firearms in ILL.

1) Conservation code was the section that Mr Diggins was tried under and eventually found innocent. ( And yes, the conservation code applies whether you are hunting/fishing or not.)

2) UUW (Unlawful Use Of Weapon) which Mr Diggins was NOT charged under


So the precedent that was set applies only to the conservation code law NOT the UUW law.

So although you would theroticaly not be charged with the lesser crime but could still be charged with UUW. Which is a felony.

The odd thing is that the conservation code is more specific as the description of the case required than the UUW section.

And yes I know how weird this sounds.

ISP2605 I believe is the name of a retired ILL LEO who has a great amount of PRACTICAL and theoretical knowledge of ILL law, if you want to hunt for his posts here and/or on THR.

Good luck and best wishes

NukemJim
__________________
"Half of being smart is knowing what you are dumb at"

"Guns shoot bullets.
People shoot people."
NukemJim is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08463 seconds with 9 queries