The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 3, 2010, 05:50 AM   #26
Puntmefar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2010
Location: Louisville Ky.
Posts: 137
well i see it this way....i was allways tought never draw a gun unless you intend to clean it,stow it,or use it and if your drawing it to use it aim center mass. the store owner had the best of intentions it seams but used the wrong method in my opinion
__________________
The most powerfull weapon a person owns is in their own brain
Puntmefar is offline  
Old May 3, 2010, 04:08 PM   #27
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,342
Quote:
well i see it this way....i was allways tought never draw a gun unless you intend to clean it,stow it,or use it and if your drawing it to use it aim center mass.
Might be wise to ugrade to drawing for possible or likely intent to use such that you are not so far behind the curve.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old May 3, 2010, 09:17 PM   #28
JohnH1963
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2008
Posts: 416
So where did the pizza owner go wrong? Well, the owner stated he fired off his weapon in the air in an attempt to scare away the gang and to get police there faster...

Lets analyze that logic a little closer. His firing of the weapon could have made matters worse. He gave the gang a reason to escalate the violence. Things could have turned out a lot worse as a result of the use of the weapon. The police in any place I have been get to where they are going fast. I remember when I was very young calling the police and then hanging up. I didnt know any better and was maybe 5 years old not at an age to really think. The police came within minutes...so the police move at the same speed if it were a hang up call or a gunshot. Believe me, they are moving fast no matter what happens.

Lastly, lets look at when you can use your weapon. There has to be a clear and present danger. There were some stray shot gun pellets that hit a customer, but there was no real clear and present danger against the pizza owner or other individuals. It seemed more like a bunch of out of hand guys then anything else who got too rowdy.

So there was some danger, but not enough danger to justify the use of a weapon. There were other alternatives such as closing the store and evacuating the staff/customers to safety. No one was really threatening the store owner or his customers. While the situation was intense and, in a way dangerous, it did not really justify bringing out the guns. You really need a high level of danger to justify the use of a weapon. Honestly, the store owner could have used some more restraint and his actions could have escalated an already bad situation.

The laws on the use of deadly force and discharging a weapon are going to be strict in almost every state out there. You have to expect to be arrested anytime you use deadly force or discharge your weapon. You never know what a judge, jury, or the prosecutor is going to come up with therefore its wise to use the greatest restraint possible...

Last edited by JohnH1963; May 3, 2010 at 10:36 PM.
JohnH1963 is offline  
Old May 4, 2010, 11:31 AM   #29
skinsman
Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2010
Posts: 75
Thank goodness I live in Colorado!
skinsman is offline  
Old May 4, 2010, 01:42 PM   #30
jglsprings
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2009
Posts: 1,443
Quote:
Thank goodness I live in Colorado!
Why? You think that stuff doesn't happen here? Good Lord, Colorado Springs is a free fire zone....

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14960346

Denver - even worse...

http://www.vaildaily.com/article/201...ntProfile=1062
__________________
An Internet forum is like having a friendly conversation over a drink at a local tavern.

Some guy at the end of the bar always has to stand up and shout something that makes no sense at all.
jglsprings is offline  
Old May 4, 2010, 01:45 PM   #31
booker_t
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2009
Posts: 797
I agree with the other response, warning shots are for Hollywood... and perhaps Naval battles in the 1700s. "Lob one across her bow lads and prepare to board! That'll get their attention!"

Here's another way to look at it.. put two hot .45 slugs in the head of some chucklehead.. and let that serve as a "warning" to the rest.

Last edited by booker_t; May 4, 2010 at 01:54 PM.
booker_t is offline  
Old May 6, 2010, 10:36 AM   #32
N.H. Yankee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2004
Location: Rural N.H.
Posts: 1,586
you'd be surprised, skinsman, N.H. was just voted THE SAFEST place to live! Shortly thereafter all h#ll broke loose. Seems like getting the title tempted fate and created a crime wave, a small town called Henniker just had a murder, no one can remember a murder ever happening there! Many never knew we had motorcycle gangs here, and Luigi's isn't in a real bad neighborhood. I think many people are naive about what really goes on in their own backyard.
__________________
The real danger to America is not abroad but within..
Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out!
Save America, abort liberalism.
N.H. Yankee is offline  
Old May 6, 2010, 12:01 PM   #33
w_houle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2007
Location: Junction City, KS
Posts: 1,389
Quote:
They started inside and it went out in the street where shooting took place
I know it's admirable to want such things to end, but after the fight left his shop: What did it have to do with him?
Quote:
... and an innocent high school kid was struck by pellets from a 20ga
Did he have a target? No, and since he did not have a target; he had no way of evaluating that target or what was behind it.
__________________
How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?
w_houle is offline  
Old May 7, 2010, 11:53 AM   #34
JohnH1963
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2008
Posts: 416
I wanted to add the MAIN thing the pizza shop owner did wrong was make public statements outside of an attorney. He should have said absolutely nothing to anyone about the incident until he was told do so by his attorney.

His statement to the press may have been a coordinated act by his attorney, but I dont think so. He tried to defend himself to the press and police. Big mistake....

You never say anything to the police or make public statements after your pistol goes off. Just identify yourself, identify the weapons, identify the witnesses and persons involved. Tell them basically what happened briefly in one or two sentences, "he came at me with that knife you see there on the ground". After that brief statement, then tell them you wont speak anymore about it without an attorney...

The press release saying he wanted to get police there faster may have sunk more in the hole then he already was. The attorney could have argued in court that the shop was under attack, one of the customers got shot and the owner had no other thing to do but shoot into the sky to try to scare them away. However, the owner specifically made the statement he wanted to get them there faster which is not a good self defense argument...

If I were on a jury, I would have to say the act was in self defense if the argument was put forward that the shop was under attack. However, after hearing the owner's statements, I think he was doing something wrong by using his handgun priviledges to make the police act. I think something like that should be punished...
JohnH1963 is offline  
Old May 9, 2010, 12:46 PM   #35
skinsman
Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2010
Posts: 75
LOL All I meant was a good lawyer, and they way the law of the land id around here, the guy wouldnt get in trouble I think. Depending on the town of course, some of them they wouldnt have done or said anything.
Weld county a year back, some dude lays low an older man OUTSIDE his door beating on it with a 2X4. Dead as a doornail, SELFDEFENCE, no charges. If your not in the big city, a lotta stuff just dont apply. Wasnt tryin to stirr the pot.
skinsman is offline  
Old May 9, 2010, 05:13 PM   #36
N.H. Yankee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2004
Location: Rural N.H.
Posts: 1,586
Skinsman, I couldn't agree more, country cops most times seem to see things in a more common sense view when it comes to defending ones life and home. I have seen right here in NH city cops that harass people with Glock, SIG or NRA decals on there vehicle being pulled over for no reason at all, Janet Napolitano put that in the works. Been some lawyers involved going after these cops on behalf of these citizens too when they aren't intimidated by the badge.

All in all I think the pizza shop owner wasn't thinking at all, the area he fired in is all apartments and who knows where he fired and even if he knew!
__________________
The real danger to America is not abroad but within..
Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out!
Save America, abort liberalism.
N.H. Yankee is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10741 seconds with 9 queries