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Old May 3, 2010, 08:00 PM   #1
jborushko
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Blank firing adapters??? Hidden?

is it legal to make a hidden blank firing adapter(BFA)? i know that the military uses the big gaudy ones for a reason. Lets say for honor guard(HD) you want things to look sharp and realistic correct? I want to design a hidden BFA. so it would make the illusion of firing rounds more realistic instead of having to manually load each round -> yeah some people think that the 3 count is nice looking.

would this be illegal? i cant seem to find any guidance online other than hearsay. the movies use them for illusion why cant i?

i imagine it would be ridiculously easy to make... just make a "flash suppressor" that plugs the barrel

thanks
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Old May 4, 2010, 01:08 AM   #2
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The big gaudy orange/red ones are for safety, on both sides. Players get to see visual proof the guns are not loaded with live ammo, and get warned not to let live ammo in the weapon, all in one package.

I don't know of any laws covering BFAs, specifically. Hollywood uses them (the hidden kind) all the time. They also sometimes go so far as to remove the locking systems on some guns, making them totally unsafe to use with real ammo, even if the BFA is removed.

You might check with the BATFE, to see what they say.
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Old May 4, 2010, 01:12 AM   #3
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I would think you could probably just ram a lead bullet in the barrel... no need to fashion anything. Just make sure and poke it out with a rod before firing live ammo!
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Old May 4, 2010, 08:24 PM   #4
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A properly made BFA has a small hole all the way through it. THis lets the gas pressure bleed of, but creates enough back pressure to allow the action to work. Simply plugging the bore completely would force all the gas pressure back out the action, and might not be such a good thing.

Recoil operated guns are notorious for being the most difficult to make function with blanks, as sometimes a bore restiction alone will not work. When this is the case, prop guns often have their locking systems removed (by ginding. cutting, etc) so they become simple blowback guns, and can function with blank. Depending on how this is done, they are often not fit for conversion back to functional firearms.
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Old May 4, 2010, 11:53 PM   #5
NavyLT
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Military BFA's used on M-4s have no hole in them. I don't think the BFAs for the 50 cal M-2s did either.

Nope, I was wrong, looks like the Ma Deuce BFA does have a hole in it!

Well, dang, looks like the M-16 BFA has a hole in it too! I'll be quiet now!

Last edited by NavyLT; May 5, 2010 at 12:03 AM.
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Old May 5, 2010, 08:56 AM   #6
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NavyLT, I recall clearly the M16 BFA having holes in them.
How? Because I remember having to clean the weapon and the BFA after using the darn things. Talk about a mess.
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Old May 5, 2010, 09:54 AM   #7
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Yeah, blanks were mostly for the youngsters to have fun with. I only shot them when they made me. If I could pass off my blanks to the Y & D crowd (younger and dumber), I would. They were a major PITA to clean up after.
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Old May 5, 2010, 02:47 PM   #8
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For any AR-15 / M16 with a removeable (not pinned) military style birdcage flash suppressor, to make an internal (hidden) field expedient blank adapter:

1. Take a piece of fired 5.56 brass and punch out the fired primer. If you are a reloader, simply start with a new piece of un-primed brass.

2. Place the now de-primed brass into a vice (or hold with pliers). Position the base of the cartridge case protruding horizontally (i.e., neck of cartridge and about 2/3 of cartridge length securely pinched in the vise/plier jaws).

3. Take a small hacksaw blade and saw off the base of the cartridge case to within about 1/8 to 1/4 inch of the solid cartridge base (where the primer pocket resides). Saw it evenly and straight across. You may have to try this a couple of times until you get the right length. Have an extra de-primed brass case or two...

4. You will now have a small brass "button" with a hole in the center.

5. Remove (unscrew) your weapon's birdcage from the threaded end of the muzzle.

6. Pace the brass button (eyeball centered and cartridge base down) onto the crown of the muzzle (pointing muzzle vertically). Re-attach the flashhider by screwing it down hand tight over the button. The birdcage will completely cover and hide the brass adapter. If you stare down the muzzle, you'll see a brass circle blocking the bore with a primer-diameter hole in the center.

7. Your AR is now equipped with an internal blank adapter which will allow it to function & cycle on semi-auto (or full auto if you have such an option). When fired, gas from the blank cartridge will rush down the barrel and encounter your internal blank adapter. The open primer hole of the adapter will allow just enough gas pressure to bleed off to simulate the dwell time of a normal bullet in the barrel. Enough gas will go to the direct impingement gas tube to reliably cycle the action and load another blank.

8. Fire until you are bored or out of blanks. If the weapon cycles sluggishly, you probably need to tighten down the bird cage a quarter turn or so.

9. AFTER USE... YOU MUST REMOVE THE DEVICE AND VISUALLY CLEAR THE BORE. If you forget (easy to do) or allow someone else to access the weapon (they won't see or know about an internal blank firing device)...YOU WILL HAVE A BARREL BURSTING KABOOM THE NEXT TIME YOU FIRE A LIVE ROUND.

10. ONE OF THE REASONS MILITARY BLANK ADAPTERS ARE USUALLY OVERSIZED AND BRIGHTLY COLORED IS TO REMIND THE OPERATOR THAT HE/SHE MUST REMOVE THE DEVICE BEFORE USING BALL AMMO.

11. This old Soldier's trick has seen decades of use by GIs needing an improvised (and louder) blank adapter. It is especially useful for graveside ceremony or memorial service firing parties...as the sound is louder than when using an issue blank adapter (which sounds tinny on video). Additionally, the weapon looks stock and more photogenic (firing party photo looks like real rounds being fired).
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Old May 5, 2010, 04:00 PM   #9
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i probably should have mentioned that im talking about a M1A/M14

i know why the standard BFA are huge and brightly colored.

the m1a's that our honor guard use are strictly blank fire only... but id still like to keep them functional if need be

the BFAs for the m16 completely block the barrel... so i dont know what you mean by its "has holes"
the plunger completely blocks the barrel by being screwed down into the barrel

im now thinking i could just design a solid "flash suppressor" that would completely block the barrel, just gotta figure out a way to keep the weapon from loading real ammo
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Old May 5, 2010, 04:15 PM   #10
jborushko
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or i could order one of these! i just found this http://www.mooremilitaria.com/prod03.htm

does this have the "hole" you were referring to?

and seems to be exactly what Chindo18Z was talking about!
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Old May 5, 2010, 05:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
so i dont know what you mean by its "has holes"
The patent drawing for the blank adapter shows an orifice that goes from the center of the plunger and exits along the side of the plunger's shank.
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Old May 5, 2010, 05:50 PM   #12
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I have one of the red M16 blank firing adapters shown above. It does have a hole down the center of the shaft, just as NavyLT says, with two ports out its sides just before where the shaft is threaded. The ports are about even with the edge of the red tab at the top of the picture.
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Old May 5, 2010, 06:33 PM   #13
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Well, now that we have solved the mystery of the orifice in the BFA, shall we move on to the origins and expanse of the universe?!?

Funny, though, in 26 years of military experience, including 4 1/2 years as a unit armorer in the Army National Guard, I never noticed the orifice until I looked it up for this topic!
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Old May 5, 2010, 06:47 PM   #14
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shall we move on to the origins and expanse of the universe?!?
As I've been watching Steven Hawking's new Into the Universe series, did you know......
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Old May 5, 2010, 08:46 PM   #15
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so much for being quiet, NavyLT!

I noticed it the first time Uncle gave me one to use!
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Old May 7, 2010, 09:47 PM   #16
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BFAs are designed to fly off when a live round is fired through one. I would be highly skeptical of one not specifically designed that way. I did not test one myself but saw an idiot NATO allied officer launch one down range.
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Old May 8, 2010, 08:02 PM   #17
jborushko
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Navy.


i know i never notice the holes either... be it because i didnt look, or they were just so covered in grim you couldn't tell... who knows such things
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