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Old April 22, 2010, 02:36 PM   #1
Vulcan Classic
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How safe is a cement wall?

Using .30 ball ammo, how thick does the concrete have to be to stop the bullet? I think a standard poured retaining wall is just shy of 8". Is that enough?
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Old April 22, 2010, 02:44 PM   #2
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a .30 nato would be through the wall and into you within 15 to 20 rounds
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Old April 22, 2010, 02:46 PM   #3
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Poured concrete 8" thick will stop A LOT of bullets.

A "cement wall" the way most people say it, meaning cinder blocks, will barely stop a 22 bullet.
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Old April 22, 2010, 03:10 PM   #4
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Point taken, for clarification; How thick does a poured concrete wall need to be to stop .30 Nato/Ball??
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Old April 22, 2010, 03:34 PM   #5
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Less if you put a metal plate behind it.
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Old April 22, 2010, 03:53 PM   #6
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A lot depends on the bag mix of the concrete and if there is fiber used for strength. I would think 8 in would hold it for awhile. Re bar in the pour?
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Old April 22, 2010, 03:55 PM   #7
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Not very for a single shot.

8 inches will more than do the job.
4 inches probably would do fine initially.

The thicker the wall the more shots before it is bettered enough at the same spot for anything to pass through.

If the shots are scattered over an area of the wall they will not be as effective at breaching.

You can always create a piece of wall and experiment.

Keep in mind the section needs to be large enough that cracks do not make it to the edge to be realistic.
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Old April 22, 2010, 03:57 PM   #8
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Rebar will increase the tensile strength of the wall against a distributed load but I'm not sure what it would do against the concentrated load of a high speed projectile like say a .30-06. I'm not ballistics expert though so I could be wrong.

One thing is for certain that with rebar the opportunity exists for the bullet to penetrate the concrete, impact the rebar and be stopped, without the rebar this opportunity (however small it may be) will be absent.
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Old April 22, 2010, 04:39 PM   #9
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Concrete is not suitable. It will spall (crumble, crater, and fall out).
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Old April 22, 2010, 04:45 PM   #10
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If you have a poured concrete wall, 8 inches thick, . . . you have no worries until the black helicopters come into play.

It will take a machine gun and a darn good gunner to breach that wall with only NATO ammo. AP will make it a bit easier, . . . but I would doubt that anything less than 100 rounds would do it.

But again, . . . build a small section, . . . say 4 ft square, . . . if you really need to know, . . . that is how you will find out.

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Old April 22, 2010, 06:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Using .30 ball ammo, how thick does the concrete have to be to stop the bullet? I think a standard poured retaining wall is just shy of 8". Is that enough?
What is basis of the question?

Are you asking about using a wall as a safety barrier, or as a backstop for targets at a 'shooting range'?
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Old April 22, 2010, 06:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
What is basis of the question?
Are you asking about using a wall as a safety barrier, or as a backstop for targets at a 'shooting range'?
Strictly safety barrier. I am in the very early design stages of creating some defensive positions in the event, or should I say when, the chaos/collapse occurs. Concrete and dirt are inexpensive compared to steel or fiber.
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Old April 22, 2010, 07:06 PM   #13
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I have a little concrete experience, but this one is beyond me.

Not a joke: The folks at the civil engineering lab of a good university would likely be able to provide an answer, plus/minus 20%.
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Old April 22, 2010, 07:31 PM   #14
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I would say that with steel reinforcement to prevent it from collapsing from all the cracks it would hold up for a very long time. Even if the wall is breached it will simply give you a hole to shoot from while you hide behind another section.

Also dirt has excellent properties for stopping bullets. As bullets hit dirt the dirt above tends to fill in the tunnels created by the bullets and even high powered bullets will get slowed down considerably in dirt or sand.
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Old April 22, 2010, 11:49 PM   #15
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As always the Box of Truth has something to say:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot6.htm

His point is that cover can be converted to concealment by a determined adversary. Even a 9mm will put some hurting on a concrete wall. Many (for a appropriate value of many) shots will eventually spall enough concrete away.

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Old April 22, 2010, 11:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
I am in the very early design stages of creating some defensive positions in the event, or should I say when, the chaos/collapse occurs.
Not a suitable topic for TFL.
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