The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 9, 2010, 10:26 PM   #76
wally626
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 31, 2009
Posts: 635
I am not overly worried about people being able to carry in a gun show, it is up to the venue owner, the promoter, local law whether or not to allow concealed or open carry. I would certainly be in favor of rules that there is absolutely no drawing of loaded weapons in the sales area or halls.

In VA if the show is in an publicly owned venues they cannot restrict open or concealed carry. I have not looked into the details, at the Hampton show there is a table near the entrance where the police sit and apply flags to show that actions are locked open. I do not know if this applies only to guns for sale or not. All guns for sale have to have their actions open and be unloaded. But, I have seen at least one person open carrying on the floor, and I would assume others concealed carrying as well. I cannot swear the open carry gun I saw was loaded but it did not have the magazine pulled or the action locked open.

Any VA posters in the know on the specific regulations?
wally626 is offline  
Old March 17, 2010, 10:52 AM   #77
langenc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,187
When someone at a gun show (or elsewhere) point a gun at you let em know. They will usually say "it is not loaded."

Remine em that most all shootings are with UNloaded guns.
langenc is offline  
Old March 17, 2010, 11:05 AM   #78
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 11,456
I had an "unloaded" shotgun pointed less than 4 inches from the side of my head at a gun show.

Typically, all safe gun handling goes out the window at those places so I have no problem with a gun show prohibiting LOADED guns. Ammo or not for the anti type people, its common sense.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old March 17, 2010, 03:38 PM   #79
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,344
Quote:
Typically, all safe gun handling goes out the window at those places so I have no problem with a gun show prohibiting LOADED guns. Ammo or not for the anti type people, its common sense.
So the people can't be trusted with guns afterall?
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old March 17, 2010, 04:00 PM   #80
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,545
Come on - that's too broad a stroke. There is the concept of differential risk situations.

Whether that applies here is the argument. Is the show a peculiar risk, attractive nuisance, etc.?

Not saying it is and I don't like carry restrictions but overly generalized arguments don't help.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old March 21, 2010, 02:10 PM   #81
nemo2econ
Member
 
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 85
March 20, 2010 -- shooting at a Denver gun show

There was an, apparently accidental, shooting at the Tanner Gun Show in Denver yesterday. Here is the Denver Post article on the event.

As you will see, the Denver Post seems to remain pretty ignorant on the matter 22 hours after the shooting. This might indicate a lack of interest by the editors that assign priorities to reporters. Or perhaps that the individual who was shot is not seriously injured. Or something else entirely.
nemo2econ is offline  
Old March 21, 2010, 02:29 PM   #82
orionengnr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2004
Posts: 4,978
I am aware of two recent NDs at local gun shows.

I was present at one of them. Nov 2009, Dallas Market Hall. I was just inside the door when I heard a "bang" behind me. Everyone looked in that direction, but I could not see "who" did "what". I did not stick around, but continued on inside.

DMH has a "no-loaded-weapons-inside" rule and I can only guess that someone was attempting to unload/clear before entering. Never mind that having a loaded mag or any ammo on your person is also verboten...

I don't think it is hypocritical, I think it is an imperfect solution to a complex problem. Until someone comes up with a perfect solution, I'll live with the situation as is...
orionengnr is offline  
Old March 22, 2010, 11:37 AM   #83
EOD Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 1999
Location: Concord, CA, USA
Posts: 726
Another reason for the prohibition that wasn't mentioned was State law. There are some States (I don't know how many.) that prohibit the possession of a firearm and ammunition for that firearm at the same time while attending a gun show. California is one of those States.
EOD Guy is offline  
Old March 22, 2010, 12:00 PM   #84
riverwalker76
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2010
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 993
Don't sweat it. There are enough guns in there that if something goes down... everyone will be safe.

On a more serious note. Many gun shows prohibit loaded weapons inside a building. It's a liability issue. There have been hundreds of incidents where people go to a gun show, pick up a rifle / pistol, and in ignorance they pull the trigger. What happens next ... well .. we all get the idea. All because some idiot left a loaded pistol or rifle on the table.

Don't sweat the "unload if you carry" policy at gun shows. They're only trying to keep everyone safe. If anything they are keeping the 'Anti-Gun' advocates from HAVING any ammunition. If you think about it. They always use our mishaps as their points to argue their case.
riverwalker76 is offline  
Old March 22, 2010, 04:01 PM   #85
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,968
Perhaps this is a good analogy:

I am a veterinarian. There is a sign in my waiting room requiring clients to keep their pets leashed or caged. Leash laws don't apply indoors, but dogs fight dogs, dogs chase cats, and cats raise all kind of ruckus with each other if my rule is not enforced on my property.

Furthermore, if a dog is threatening, we muzzle it. We use muzzles very infrequently, but I am within my rights to protect myself and my staff when I feel the need to do so.

And clients who want to let their pets run loose or who object to having their dog muzzled, even if it is behaving in a threatening manner, are free to leave. Some have. No problem at my end. The overwhelming majority are understanding.

If everyone was as careful with guns as I am - as the overwhelming majority of you are - additional rules would not be necessary. But we all know that there are plenty of folks who aren't. I therefore respect the fact that gunshow organizers and gunshop owners are looking out for my safety when they post rules, just as my clients understand that, no matter how well behaved their dog is, I can't allow all dogs to run loose in my clinic. The rules and restrictions at gunshows and gunshops might not be perfect, but the proprietors are trying to deal with a difficult situation - a large group of people who vary widely in experience and training and who will, necessarily, be handling firearms - in a way that is both safe and fair to everyone.
TailGator is offline  
Old March 22, 2010, 11:33 PM   #86
ClayInTx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,066
If I went to a gun show and the sign was not there I would not go in.
ClayInTx is offline  
Old March 23, 2010, 10:48 AM   #87
misnomerga
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 137
I concur with 44 Amp

Quote:
I'd rather have the show, and put up with not being armed while inside that not have a show. No right is absolute, and if you aren't willing to be flexible about at least some things, well, I guess your life is going to be pretty...stiff.
Having a show with these type of restrictions beats not having a show at all. The population of folks that frequent shows is so varied. After seeing some of them I am glad there are no loaded weapons! Some of them look like they came straight out of America's Most Wanted.
misnomerga is offline  
Old March 23, 2010, 11:32 AM   #88
riverwalker76
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2010
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 993
Quote:
If I went to a gun show and the sign was not there I would not go in.
I agree 100%.

They're having a show here these weekend at the Owensboro, KY Sportscenter. They ensure all firearms are unloaded before entering, and require you to put a zip tie in the chamber so it will not close. They furnish the zip tie. Conceal and carry are INCLUDED in this!
riverwalker76 is offline  
Old March 23, 2010, 02:00 PM   #89
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,344
Quote:
Come on - that's too broad a stroke. There is the concept of differential risk situations.

Whether that applies here is the argument. Is the show a peculiar risk, attractive nuisance, etc.?

Not saying it is and I don't like carry restrictions but overly generalized arguments don't help.
I dunno. A concealed gun at a gunshow should have no bearing on the show and no bearing on safety, but basically the signs are saying that they don't trust people with loaded guns at the gun show. Sadly, of the incidents about which I have knowledge at north Texas gun shows, all of the incidents have been by vendors, not patrons.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old March 23, 2010, 02:25 PM   #90
WoofersInc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 224
We have the sign at the loocation where most of the gun shows are located. However the reason they are there is that the facility is run by the County. State law prohibits carrying inside any government run facilities. Simple reasoning behind it for where I am..
WoofersInc is offline  
Old March 23, 2010, 03:38 PM   #91
1911rocks
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2006
Posts: 424
a Bigger liability issue

Forget the ND/ADs. My wife was injured (eye) at a gun show by a dowel rod in the barrel of a rifle with a piece of paper attached (For Sale). She passed behind this gentleman who was bent over a table with the gun over his shoulder he straightened up and turned and of course the place was packed and she had no place to escape to. These are the type of things that the lefties quote in their danger statistics. We need to think ahead and be responsible in all we do that is in any way connected to Firearms. Normally I don't go to Gun Shows but, a friend wanted to go people watch and try to find a 1st model Peacemaker. She's healing but we won't know how it will affect her eyesight for a week or two.
1911rocks is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 08:18 PM   #92
HvyMtl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2009
Location: Nashvegas, TN
Posts: 228
The "Why"

The "why" typically is due to the VENUE, not insurance purposes.

Example: Nashville, TN area gun shows are in places such as the Fair Grounds, owned by the City of Nashville, which forbids loaded firearms on their properties.
Another Example: Williamson County Agricultural Center- owned by the County, and they expressly forbid loaded firearms at the Center.

Here is an example where it is ALLOWED in Mid-TN: Mid-South Guns and Gear Expo- http://www.gunsandgearexpo.com/attendee-info

"LOADED FIREARMS MAY NOT BE HANDLED at any time on the premises," even though you are allowed to carry with Permit. The primary concern with them is the accidental discharge...
__________________
Μολὼν λάβε
HvyMtl is offline  
Old March 24, 2010, 08:57 PM   #93
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,213
Quote:
DMH has a "no-loaded-weapons-inside" rule and I can only guess that someone was attempting to unload/clear before entering. Never mind that having a loaded mag or any ammo on your person is also verboten...
DMH has no such rule. My wife occasionally drags me to a jewelry show at DMH and there are no 30-06 signs posted except when a gun show is there.

This may not be exactly correct, but from what I gather, the promoter has to have insurance before the venue will allow him to use the facility and the promoter's insurance company is who imposes the "no-loaded-weapons" rule.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old March 25, 2010, 01:33 AM   #94
JWK1107
Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2010
Posts: 23
Quote:
I asked a simple question does any else find this hypocrital
No, not the least bit hypocritical at all.

Quote:
So the people can't be trusted with guns afterall?
The only person I trust with a gun is me.
JWK1107 is offline  
Old March 29, 2010, 06:24 PM   #95
ursavus.elemensis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2007
Location: southcentral/southeastern PA
Posts: 375
I believe in the rights of private property owners. If they don't want your gun on their property, that is their right, and I think we gun owners need to support that, not oppose that.
__________________
"A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a
Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."
-The Declaration of Independence
ursavus.elemensis is offline  
Old March 30, 2010, 01:42 AM   #96
SigP6Carry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2009
Posts: 1,086
I'm going to put this little fictional anecdote in here:
Guy CC's into show with a beautiful Colt Series 70 in an IWB.
Guy visits table, talks to table attendant.
Other guy asks table attendant if he has an Colt Series 70.
Guy says "I have one, I really like it."
Other guy makes an offer and asks to see it.
Guy takes loaded gun out of holster, racks slide, removes magazine.
Other guy looks gun over, checks the chamber, as all gun enthusiast should always do, .45ACP round flies out.
Guy has egg on face.

Now, imagine if the bolded part didn't take place. There's one reason, just to pile on top of all other reasons mentioned in prior posts.
__________________
-liberal gun nut = exception to the rule-
-1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes-
-Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-
SigP6Carry is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12601 seconds with 9 queries