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Old March 29, 2010, 02:19 AM   #1
ArtN
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Massachusetts allowed Handguns

Hi, I am going to purchase a handgun, with the possiblilty of conceal carry,
and I understand there are many handguns of which Massachusetts does not
allow to be purchased. Is is possible to acquire a list in order to help me decide as to what I will end up buying?

I am in Wastington state visiting and no problems there with any handguns.
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Old March 29, 2010, 06:16 AM   #2
Cornhusker77
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Here's a list
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/...rms_roster.pdf
or
And there's some links there to maybe some more specific information.

http://www.mass.gov/Cago/docs/press/...us%20brief.pdf

Last edited by Cornhusker77; March 29, 2010 at 06:21 AM.
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Old March 29, 2010, 07:42 AM   #3
FlyFish
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It's a bit more complicated than just having a list of non-prohibited guns (what did you expect? - this is Massachusetts).

First, the EOPS list that you have the link to is for guns that are allowed to be sold by dealers (i.e., by FFL holders) - guns not on the list are prohibited for sale by dealers. There is no prohibition on sales between individuals - Massachusetts residents are allowed 4 FTF transactions per year, each of which has to be reported to the state on a FA-10 form. Although they don't use the term, this amounts to gun registration. Any gun legally in the state may be transferred this way, just as long as it doesn't go through a dealer. As you might guess, prices on guns that are not on the EOPS list are somewhat inflated here.

Guns not on the list can sometimes be legally transferred or sold by dealers if they are grandfathered - i.e., if it can be proven that they were legally in the state before September (I believe) of 1994. There aren't too many of those because they tend to be transferred privately with the FA-10, but you do run into them sometimes, and also sometimes at dealers out-of-state, and as you know those guns need to be transferred through an in-state FFL.

Now, here's the part that drives those of us trapped in this commie hell-hole crazy: In addition to the EOPS list, a gun also has to be judged "safe" by the Attorney General's office under the Massachusetts Consumer Protection Laws. It's not entirely clear what the criteria for "safe" might be, but among other things they include weight of trigger pull, presence of a safety device, etc. The only problem is, there's no list available, nor will the AG provide one if asked, and simply because a gun might be on the EOPS list doesn't mean it's also on the AG's double-secret probation list. So, dealers are sort of left to twist in the wind and some of them won't deal with certain guns even though they may be legal to sell.

Anyone relocating to Massachusetts - which may incude you? - is allowed to bring in their guns (as long as they don't violate our AWB ban, which is a whole 'nother story), but they have to be registered and are then considered legally in-state, whether they are on the EOPS list or not. So, if you're moving here you can make a few bucks by buying some expensive desirable guns not on the list - Colts and Kimbers come to mind - and then legally selling them at inflated prices via the FA-10 (remember, only 4 per calender year) once you get here. Just make sure you don't have any large capacity magazines manufactured after a certain date (which I can't recall at the moment) - those are prohibited under the AWB, and simply possessing them is a felony.

Does your head hurt yet? Well how about this - most of us who are serious about gun collecting here know one or more FFLs who openly flaunt the law and will sell or transfer whatever you might want. They're trying to get the AG to take them to court so they can fight the law and have it declared unconstitutional. The AG is concerned they might win, so refuses to acknowledge that they're out there, but they clearly know they are.

Yes, it is insane, but this is what happens when you have a one-party dictatorship for decades. Best advice? - don't move here under any circumstances. If you've got a job offer, consider moving to New Hampshire and commuting. I've got another year or two before I retire and I'll be getting out of here so fast it'll take weeks for the dust to settle.

Much, much more information and advice, some of it from attorneys, is available at the Northeast Shooters Forum - www.northeastshooters.com

Last edited by FlyFish; March 29, 2010 at 08:03 AM.
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Old March 29, 2010, 10:35 AM   #4
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Old March 29, 2010, 10:43 AM   #5
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WOW!
Glad to live in AZ.
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Old March 29, 2010, 11:40 AM   #6
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I live in Mass and I can tell you, there are ALOT of fine handguns which cannot be purchased. For example you can only buy a glock made before 1998, most colt semi-autos you cannot buy, a bunch of beretta's. It is just a damn shame.
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Old March 29, 2010, 12:16 PM   #7
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So do something!! Vote the leftists out and decent citizens into office. If all else fails, move or do as your ancesters did in the 1700's.
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Old March 29, 2010, 03:58 PM   #8
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Get your gun owning and shooting enthusiast brethren organized and overthrow the dictating leftist progressives. They're not doing anybody any good.

How the hell did it get to that point from when the founders got their toe hold in that area way back when ?

Wow, unbelieveable.......
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Old March 29, 2010, 06:51 PM   #9
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....and it gets worse. Not only are we not allowed to purchase certain new guns we are severely limited in used selection too. Additionally, while some guns may be available to us because they made both lists,, they have to be factory modified versions to meet state regs ( like 10# triggers on a DA, loaded chamber indecators, etc. ) Now, found the gun you want and it's on both lists! WoHOo! Wait, want that identical gun in a 5" vs 4" or Camo vs Black? Compact vs full sized? fiber optic vs plain sights? Opps, that's a different part # and not on the list!


The ONLY good things we have here is that getting a permit to carry isn't as bad as some states and that we have no waiting/cooling down period. (yet)


BTW< As for "voting the bums out" HA! Most elections have democrats runing unoposed or against other democrats. As a whole, they are that liberal here and despite one upset, it's not going to get much better within my lifetime.
I have 5 1/2 year to retire. When I do, I'm taking my guns and sizeable retirement fund and moving to a free state.
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Old March 30, 2010, 12:42 AM   #10
ArtN
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Massachusetts Sucks in this Department

[B]The ONLY good things we have here is that getting a permit to carry isn't as bad as some states and that we have no waiting/cooling down period. (yet)

The above is not true in my case. I applied Dec. 6th, 2009, and was told it will take 90 days, guess what it took more than 90 days........

I notice Smith and Wesson has many handguns on the list, I suspect only because they are manufactured in Springfield......hmmmmm....
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Old March 30, 2010, 01:24 AM   #11
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Wow, that actually makes me glad to live in Il... and makes me think that going to school in Boston for Grad School is a bad idea...
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Old March 30, 2010, 02:20 AM   #12
sandbag
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Rhode Island

Rhode Island has none of the nonsensical gun laws Mass does.To buy a handgun you merely need pass awritten safety test given by the dealer.In a week or two DEM(state conservation) sends you a "blue card" that you present when purchasing your firearm.It has no photo,just your name.
There is no gun registration.
There is a 7 day waiting period-a pain in the butt,but not THAT bad compared to some other places.
No prohibited weapons.You can buy anything.
You can have a loaded firearm in your home or business-no permits,etc.needed.
Concealed carry permits are somewhat difficult to get.It really depends who is the Attorney General when you apply.
It's illegal to sell military armor piercing ammo("black tip")to civilians,but no range here will let you shoot it anyway.
No magazine capacity limits.
We currently have a very gun-friendly Governor.He is term limited and who knows who will replace him?
The State Constitution has an unambiguous clause guranteeing the RKBA.
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Old March 30, 2010, 07:27 AM   #13
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grad school is what 2 years, are you really going to let bad gun laws stop you from getting an education there
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Old March 30, 2010, 07:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
So do something!! Vote the leftists out and decent citizens into office. If all else fails, move or do as your ancesters did in the 1700's.
Yes, of course. Unfortunately, I've been trying to do exactly that for the last 45 years of my life and I'm getting tired of shoveling $h*t against the tide. As Tacoma said a few posts earlier, the entire state is largely filled with moonbat democrats, most of whom would happily vote to repeal the 2nd Amendment if given the chance. They like things the way they are, don't know what it's like to be free, and don't want to find out.

My ancestors were somewhat unsuccessfully farming potatoes in County Cork in the 1700s, but I get your point. Much as we all enjoy our Walter Mitty-esque fantasies, I don't think we're yet at the point of armed rebellion. Yet.

So, that leaves moving, which would have happened some years ago except for aging parents, since departed, and other obligations now winding down. Soon, very soon.
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Old March 30, 2010, 05:07 PM   #15
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It's so frustrating to read the constant "well move" or "well do something about it!" posts

Any sane citizen of the Commonwealth is left with the distinct feeling that these things are so simple and easily done...why didn't I think of snapping my fingers before?? Yes, I'll simply organize and change things for the better! I can then use that model to fix the country, by golly!

Obviously, these are pie in the sky expectations. The sane and law abiding citizens of MA do what we can. One of the problems is, many of us DO move. What does that do to the election results, I wonder...

Anyway. ArtN:

There are TWO lists in MA. [edit] NEW Handguns must meet the requirement of the 1998 Gun Control laws and the 940 CMR Consumer Protection regulations

This gun store's site is a fair place to start:

http://www.fsguns.com/malawsandregs.html

Then...there's this handy deal I have called an FFL03 which makes me a collector of curios and relics- like my Colt 1911 made in 1918 and my P.38 made in 1944

Last edited by Chris_B; March 30, 2010 at 05:30 PM.
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Old March 30, 2010, 05:52 PM   #16
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It's sad when you realize that whoever came up with the list didn't even know what they were looking at. I looked, and unless I missed it, someone please rationalize (Massachusetts style), how a S&W Revolver model 13 or model 19 isn't on the list. Yet, many other S&W revolvers in 357 magnum are available? The fact that there's a gun on or not on a list doesn't bother me as much, than knowing that some retard made the list and doesn't know the differences between guns.
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Old March 30, 2010, 08:29 PM   #17
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It's a great place to live if you want to pay $699 for a Kel-Tec PF9 (dealer price) , Five bills plus for a used P3AT, or a watch someone fall all over themselves to grab their credit card to purchase a used Glock 26 for $850 (saw that hapen in a shop one day)

Nice to see Kahr finally has a Mass approved pistol. Too bad it's more expensive than the free state version, but hey, at least we have one now.


EDIT TO ADD: Regarding the 19 and 13. They're fine if you can find one in the state.

Notice there are NO Colts on the approved list. Thankfully, every now and then I run into one that was grandfathered that isn't being sold for black market prices like most non-compliant guns.

Basicly we get Some Bertettas, some Sigs, a bunch of S&W's, a few Rugers, one or two Kahrs, some Para Ordenance, some Walthers, and that's pretty much it.

Want a Browning Buckmark... nope. A Beretta Tomcat... negative. How about a Colt SAA clone? ... no dice. It's very frustrating. Naa mini .22? Nope. Ruger LCP now way.

Last edited by savit260; March 30, 2010 at 08:38 PM.
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Old March 30, 2010, 08:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
It's sad when you realize that whoever came up with the list didn't even know what they were looking at. I looked, and unless I missed it, someone please rationalize (Massachusetts style), how a S&W Revolver model 13 or model 19 isn't on the list. Yet, many other S&W revolvers in 357 magnum are available? The fact that there's a gun on or not on a list doesn't bother me as much, than knowing that some retard made the list and doesn't know the differences between guns.
So let me get this straight:

Because a member here is from MA, if he or she would try to explain this to you, that person would be 'rationalizing' why this is a good set of laws and regulations, in their inimitable "Massachusetts style". That style, I take it, would be by necessity idiotic, slackjawed, and contrary to the good sense of firearm owning citizens elsewhere, because all people in MA support gun control and arbitrary banning of various firearms with no good reason to do so. The reason, of course, that we all support that mindset is because we are from Massachusetts, and everyone knows about them

What is actually sad here is that instead of simply asking "why on earth would these laws and regs do that?" you decided to insult everybody from the very place you're inquiring about, who otherwise might have spent time and effort trying to actually answer your question.

If you're not aware of it, you can carry on a discussion without intentionally alienating the very people you'd like to discuss with.
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Old March 30, 2010, 08:52 PM   #19
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What is the reasoning behind no Colts on the approved list?
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Old March 30, 2010, 08:57 PM   #20
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My understanding is that Colt considers these vague and confusing laws, so they have no intention of trying to comply, even if they had models that comply with all the safety feature rules MA wants to see.

If a maker does not supply examples for testing, they can't ever pass the tests

But bear in mind that this means new Colts. It doesn't mean you can't buy Colts here. I own two. I missed a really nice Series 70 by about 24 hours in January and I'm still kicking myself over it
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Old March 31, 2010, 06:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
The fact that there's a gun on or not on a list doesn't bother me as much, than knowing that some retard made the list and doesn't know the differences between guns.
The list isn't made by "some retard," even though there's no shortage of them in state government here. Manufacturers must submit five handguns of each model they want listed for testing against certain criteria (drop test, etc.) and those guns are destroyed in the process.

Obviously, models that are no longer manufactured will never appear on the list and other guns (high-end target pistols, for example) aren't there because the manufacturer has apparently decided they won't sell enough of them here to make up the loss of the five that are the cost of entry. And others (Colt, e.g.) just refuse to play.
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Old March 31, 2010, 10:18 AM   #22
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No Chris; only YOU would read into a post like that. And if you're insulted by the post, then you deserve it. I never asked to rationalize that the law/rules was good or bad. Matter of fact, I never asked for any opinion about the law/rule itself. I was asking to rationalize how 2 almost identical guns that exist in the world; how one could be on the approved list and one isn't on the list. The list itself is strictly a law that the people of Mass need to fight with their law makers. But the logic or rational on WHICH guns are on the list is what I was questioning. But again, if you took offense to it because you can't read, or you prefer to be a pessimist and read into it negatively, then that's your problem. I don't care.
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Old March 31, 2010, 11:40 AM   #23
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The person who voices the opinion is always responsible for how it's presented

Telling me I deserve something speaks volumes as to your manner, as do your little jabs in your reply. Somebody is all ****** off, but it's not me
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Old March 31, 2010, 11:58 AM   #24
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The state governments of Massachusetts and California both have lists of allowed firearms and criteria - 'moonbat' or not - that firearms must meet to be legally owned within these states.

Both have large populations of relatively wealthy families. (Lots of not-so-wealthy citizens also, of course, but they don't have as much of a say in "how things shall be".)

You have to wonder why firearms laws are so bizarre in these two states, relative to the other 48.

I see no particular reason to relocate to either state, if you do not already live there. (There are perfectly wonderful graduate schools in many other states that have far more rational firearms laws...)

Best to all of you who are sentenced by fate to live in one of the two "Democratic People's Republics of..."

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Old March 31, 2010, 12:53 PM   #25
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A major problem with why many semi-autos are not approved in mass is you must be able to see that there is a round chambered at all times without having to pull back the slide. A good example is older glocks allow you to do this, newer ones do not. A few years ago glock produced what they thought was a new mass compliant glock to be sold in mass. It was sold for a few months untill the state decided it was not "mass compliant".

I would not be suprised if these things are decided by which gun company wants to hand the state of mass a briefcase full of cash
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