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Old March 16, 2010, 09:53 AM   #51
Tennessee Gentleman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestro pistolero
But they don't burn, really.
I disagree. We read and hear in the media all the time about dispatchers who say dumb things (all these calls are recorded) to folks calling in when there is a real emergency. If a 911 blew off a call reporting someone was openly displaying a gun and then that person killed a mess of people I think the public would eat them alive. Sure they can ask questions and I think they should but my point is that if they decide not to respond and it goes bad they will get a lot of heat from the public.

Anyway, off topic but I am not a supporter of OC. I don't think it helps gun owners secure more freedom. It is not a tactic I would use to make the case for gun rights but that is just my opinion.

I will tell you that when I tried to fight the opting out of a TN law in my community about CCW in city parks (TN law allowed them to opt out) the kook I mentioned earlier was brought up by the soccer moms and they ended up banning guns in city parks. Guess OC didn't work that time?
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Old March 16, 2010, 12:06 PM   #52
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For a method of civil disobedience, folks could... NAY... SHOULD call 911 to report every uniformed officer open carrying in public. They are no different than us!
What good would that do? I'm pretty sure that would be considered filing a false report, not to mention engendering all sorts of ill will among local law enforcement.

If it was in my area, I'd turn the people making such calls it in to law enforcement. It's a waste of everyone's time and tax money, and it diverts the police from responding to real calls.

I mean, really...is it so hard to go about it the way I suggested? Or is it that it's just not glamorous enough?
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Old March 16, 2010, 04:48 PM   #53
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For one thing, 911 calls are supposed to be limited to "emergencies". 4 or 5 guys sitting in a restaurant in Virginia, or anyplace else where it's legal to carry a gun, openly or concealed, are not indicative of an "emergency". Now, to be fair, I don't recall if that particular case was called into 911 or just the local authorities number. Where I live, we are covered by the county sheriffs office, acting as our police force. I carry their number on my cell phone as a "quick call" button.

911 should not be used unless the person with the gun is acting in a wierd, aggressive, or threatening way. It definitely should not be used in the case of 4 or 5 guys enjoying a burger in a restaurant while otherwise minding their own business.

If I see some guy walking through my cul-de-sac with a shootin' iron strapped onto his hip, but the gun is in the holster and he appears to be out for a walk, I'd probably wave and say, "Nice evening for a walk".

However, if I see some guy walking through my cul-de-sac with a shootin' iron in hand, and acting a little bit out of the ordinary, I'd call the local sheriff's office and let them know what I'm observing. I might also get in my house if I'm outside and observe what's happening.
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Old March 17, 2010, 09:43 AM   #54
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Tom S,
Quote:
that would be considered filing a false report
So is a person legally open carrying a side arm in a holster.

Before you say that the caller may not know it is legal... Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it..."
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Old March 17, 2010, 10:05 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by hogdogs
Before you say that the caller may not know it is legal... Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it..."
Brent, calling 911 and telling the operator that you see a man walking around with a gun in open view is neither a false report nor against the law.

If you guys think that localities are going to charge folks for calling in "man with a gun" to 911 you are kidding yourselves. Ain't gonna happen.

This is a problem (if it really is one) that we would solve with education and not by trying to "punish" those who make us mad because guns scare them.
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Last edited by Tennessee Gentleman; March 17, 2010 at 10:28 AM.
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Old March 17, 2010, 10:22 AM   #56
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Brent, calling 911 and telling the operator that you see a man walking around with a gun in open view is neither a false report nor against the law.

If you guys think that localities are going to charge folks for calling in "man with a gun" to 911 you are kidding yourselves. Ain't gonna happen.
So reporting a guy in blue shirt and trousers packing a gun wouldn't be filing a false report either
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Old March 17, 2010, 10:27 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogdogs
So reporting a guy in blue shirt and trousers packing a gun wouldn't be filing a false report either
No, unless he was not really packing and you made it up.
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Old March 17, 2010, 10:29 AM   #58
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I would never report a LEO who wasn't openly carrying...
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Old March 17, 2010, 07:32 PM   #59
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In theory, the open carry movement is to educate people about what is legal and what isn't. In states and areas where loaded open carry is permissible, the first step is to ensure call takers & dispatchers ask the right questions.

Police will publicly state that they "have to respond" to a man with a gun call. That's not entirely true. Done properly, a call might go something like this;

911: This is 911, what is your emergency?
Caller: There's a guy walking around with a gun here.
911: A man with a gun?
Caller: That's right, he's carrying a gun.
911: Where are you calling from sir?
Caller: I'm at ..uh..933 Park Street, downtown.
911: Alright, can you describe the man for me?
Caller: Yeah, he's white, short dark hair, maybe 30 to 35, blue shirt and khaki pants.

911: And what's he doing? Is he threatening anyone?
Caller: Uh..no. But he has a GUN!
911: I got that. Where's the gun? In his hand?
Caller: No. No. It... it's on his right side.
911: Is it in a holster?
Caller: Yeah. A black holster.
911: Is he threatening or arguing with anyone?

Caller: No. He's standing outside the Hobby Shop drinking coffee.
911: So he's not endangering anyone right now, correct?
Caller: But HE HAS A GUN! It's right out in the open!
911: I understand that, sir. But that's not illegal.
Caller: WHAT?
911: Just wearing a gun openly isn't illegal.

Caller: Are you ****ing me?
911: No sir. It's not illegal to wear a gun openly in this state.
Caller: But what about this guy with the gun?
911: What about him? Is he acting strangely or something?
Caller: No, not that. Are you telling me wearing a gun in public isn't a crime?

911: That's exactly correct sir.
Caller: This is nuts! This state is crazy!
911: Sir, are you from California?
Caller: Uh, yeah, why?
911: Nothing sir. Have a nice day
*click*
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Old March 17, 2010, 08:28 PM   #60
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he went off several times about the Court had "created" an individual right to keep and bear arms.
Which is tough to argue, since any basis to the idea of this not being a personal right (National Guard or the whole 'militia only argument') came up years after the 2nd amendment

But tough or not, they'll argue it
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Old March 17, 2010, 09:24 PM   #61
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Quote:
Caller: No, not that. Are you telling me wearing a gun in public isn't a crime?
911: That's exactly correct sir.
Caller: This is nuts! This state is crazy!
911: Sir, are you from California?
Caller: Uh, yeah, why?
911: Nothing sir. Have a nice day
*click*
Brilliant!

As I said, we can convince our local LEO's, through a little patience and education, to respond in such a way to such situations.

Or we can fulminate about it on the internets and hatch up schemes to tie up the 911 switchboards with even more nuisance calls.

Which seems a better way to build goodwill and solidarity with folks?
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Old March 18, 2010, 08:43 PM   #62
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Tom,

That was loosely based on a real event. A local activist moved to Vermont. He and his wife overheard a conversation between two cops and a woman just outside the store. She'd spotted a man in the store with a gun under his jacket and called the PD. The officers were asking if he'd threatened anyone or brandished the gun. When she said he hadn't it went something like this...

Cop: So, what's the problem then?
Woman: That man is carrying a gun!
Cop: I understand that. But was he endangering anyone?
Woman: Of course he is! HE HAS A GUN!
Cop: Nothing wrong with that.
Woman: Huh? What if he robs the store?
Cop: Let me guess, you're from California, right?
Woman: Yeah, so?
Cop: This is Vermont. Our laws make sense here.
Woman:

The main problem with people like Henigan and Helmke is that they refuse to believe how easily our modern society could fall into chaos. Katrina served as a small scale example. Another 8.0+ magnitude earthquake on the New Madrid fault in Missouri could not only change the course of the Mississippi (again) but reduce a huge section of the central U.S. to rubble.¹ Even a high-altitude nuke could create enough EMP to revert us back to 1910 technology levels for up to a decade.²

It doesn't even have to be that dramatic if you're located in the middle. How many local citizens were threatened by the Rodney King rioters? Florida citizens surviving hurricanes often turn into self-directed local milita to police their neighborhoods of looters.

If they had their way, the anti-gun lobby would be responsible for the deaths of hundreds, perhaps thousands, during a period of crisis. They have no credible answer for those people who call for "government protection" when it is unavailable.


¹ The Dec 1811 quake is estimated between 7.5 and 8.0 and was felt in NYC. Reports of church bells ringing in Boston and sidewalks cracking in D.C. were reported before the quake's location was known. New Madrid is near the Missouri/Arkansas/Tennesse border.
² The EMP effects destroy electronic devices which have become embedded in our lives. Computers, TV's, radios, car electronics are all obvious. Non-obvious are those electronic controls on valves for water, power, sewage, rail switching and thousands of other uses. No phones, networks, power grids, no transportation, no water. We'd be living in rural 1910 conditions for at least a year as new equipment was built and deployed. Levels of medical care drop dramatically (no CAT/MRI, slow lab tests) and drugs are harder to obtain.
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Old March 26, 2010, 10:56 AM   #63
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This says it all.

Political content deleted.

Last edited by Al Norris; March 26, 2010 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Politics
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