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Old December 26, 2009, 06:59 PM   #1
hellisht
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NICS ???

info needed please. a little history first. app 10 years ago i got a mistomenor charge of domestic violence. in 2007 i succesfully petitioned the state of south dakota to get my gun rights back. a year or so ago i was issued a concelled weapons permitt also for the state of south dakota. here is the problem, i went to buy a hand gun from a local sporting goods store (scheels) and they claim that NICS put a hold on the sale. this was a week ago tomorrow. i was informed buy Scheels that even after the 3 day wait that NICS put on the sale the store does not have to sell me this gun untill NICS says its ok. so i am wondering what is going on. i would think with the state issuing me a CWP that the sale would be an EZ deal. what to do
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Old December 26, 2009, 07:55 PM   #2
docpadds
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Its really not unusual for there to be some errant records etc that are requiring a more manual search, therefore causing the delay. It can simply be a flag showing something happened but they have to make calls to find out that the something is now a nothing.

As an FFL it is at our discretion as to whether we sell it on or not, its completely our choice and for safety sake many just will not move until NICs comes back. I have some customers i know are good and its things like military clearance holding them up, so i do that after the 3 days but if i don't know you and haven't cleared you before i generally hold too.
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Old December 26, 2009, 08:37 PM   #3
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Yep, doc is right. It is probably a flag that will need to be investigated, and it's at the discretion of the ffl/store if they'll sell to you after the waiting period. (I know walmart won't).

Here in PA, we go through the PICS system for the state, and they've delayed me (under research review) a couple times. Once was for 2weeks. FFL said he couldn't legally give it to me after the 3days anyway.... and that PA is supposed to make a determination within 15days. They finally did (on day 14) and gave the go-ahead. It sucks, though, especially when you can legally carry your .45 anywhere you please, but just can't take home your new .22 rifle....
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Old December 26, 2009, 09:24 PM   #4
ultra45
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Hmmm, I think you mean NCIC (National Crime Information Center) , not NCIS which is the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. NCIC would still show the DV charge, even thought the local (state in your case) jurisdiction found in your favor and issued the CCW. If the dealer doesn't sell you the firearm due to the NCIC insta check, you are looking at a visit with your Attorney again. Let him set them straight, but be prepared to go thru this everytime you purchase a firearm, as getting the NCIC record purged is not that easy, a real PITA.
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Old December 26, 2009, 09:46 PM   #5
vranasaurus
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Ultra45,

He is talking about the NICS (national instant check system) which is the system used for the background check.

Don't worry we all suffer from slight dyslexia from time to time.
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Old December 26, 2009, 11:28 PM   #6
noyes
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NOTICE TO ALL FFLs: Due to the closure of the NICS Section for the Christmas Holiday, NICS E-Check will be unavailable between the time period of 12:01 AM EST December 25 through 7:00 AM EST December 26.


http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsfact.htm


When a transaction is DELAYED, the NICS Examiner begins extensive research on the potential prohibitor. When the research is complete, the NICS Examiner calls the FFL and gives a PROCEED or DENY decision on the firearm transaction.
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Old December 27, 2009, 01:31 AM   #7
maestro pistolero
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Quote:
Don't worry we all suffer from slight dyslexia from time to time.
Or in my case, lesdyxia.
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Old December 27, 2009, 12:44 PM   #8
hellisht
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next NICS question

being that NICS has put a hold on my gun purchase for what ever reason. how long does it usually take for them to pull there heads out. and get everything on there end figured out.


Edit: Separate thread on same topic, merged - Antipitas
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Old December 27, 2009, 06:36 PM   #9
dogtown tom
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Quote:
hellisht: ...i would think with the state issuing me a CWP that the sale would be an EZ deal...
If you knew what your state CWP allows you to do you would know it doesn't permit you to bypass the NICS check. Only those states whose permitting process meets or exceeds the FBI NICS standard are allowed to bypass the NICS check. South Dakota doesn't meet that standard. http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/participation_map.htm

Quote:
hellisht being that NICS has put a hold on my gun purchase for what ever reason. how long does it usually take for them to pull there heads out. and get everything on there end figured out.

It's been my experience that NICS is one of the most efficient, customer service oriented government agencies I've ever been involved with.

I wish the IRS and especially the post office were half as good as the FBI NICS.

Getting back to your question.......NICS has three business days beginning the day after your attempted purchase to issue a "denied". Do a search on "NICS", you'll find dozens of threads asking the same question.
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Last edited by dogtown tom; December 27, 2009 at 06:42 PM.
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Old December 27, 2009, 07:24 PM   #10
wally626
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Some other threads have suggested getting a NICS Pin number, it keep you in the system so you don't go through delays every purchase. If you are denied and go through the appeal process successfully you can then apply for the PIN

This form http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/vafbrocheng.pdf
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Old December 27, 2009, 08:18 PM   #11
vranasaurus
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I get delayed every time.

At the height of the post election buying frenzy the NICS would always call the FFL in 2 business days. Just recently it only took 1 business day to get the go ahead.
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Old December 27, 2009, 08:19 PM   #12
johnbt
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I understand that your state has restored some of your rights, but has the federal government? (The feds haven't had any money for restoration for years.) The domestic violence law is federal and I don't know if a decision at the state level carries any weight at all when it comes to guns.

John
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Old December 28, 2009, 08:39 AM   #13
blume357
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Doesn't matter.... the state restored his rights which is where the

original charges were placed and made.... if they expunge or change it then it's a done deal.....
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Old December 28, 2009, 09:19 AM   #14
eme
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"IF" you were delayed by the Feds (NICS) then you were delayed for 5 to 7 working days The Feds give a date, if they do not call backby then, then you can purchase your gun on that date, If they call back and deny you, you will be notified by the dealer and when you come in should be given paper work on who to call and find out why the denial. In my State the State will either give a go or deny, no in between If denied, again paper work will be given to you by the business. You have a phone number again to call and talk to a State official ( State Police) You can then find out why and have your say with the official. Good Liuck in your quest
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Old December 28, 2009, 10:06 AM   #15
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hellisht you need to get a UPIN. It will take a few months to get it. Once you have that NICS can do the check to make sure there is nothing since the UPIN was given and you can take you gun home that day. They are free you need to fill out the NICS appeal form and mail it and the finger print card in and wait.
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Old December 29, 2009, 01:44 PM   #16
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South Dakota is moot, is it not ? I thought this was a federal law ?
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Old December 30, 2009, 09:46 AM   #17
vranasaurus
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Quote:
South Dakota is moot, is it not ? I thought this was a federal law ?
921 a (20) and (33) state as follows:

Quote:
(20) The term “crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year” does not include—

(A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices, or

(B) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less.

What constitutes a conviction of such a crime shall be determined in accordance with the law of the jurisdiction in which the proceedings were held. Any conviction which has been expunged, or set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.
and

Quote:
(33)

(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (C),[2] the term “misdemeanor crime of domestic violence” means an offense that—

(i) is a misdemeanor under Federal, State, or Tribal [3] law; and

(ii) has, as an element, the use or attempted use of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon, committed by a current or former spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim.

(B)

(i) A person shall not be considered to have been convicted of such an offense for purposes of this chapter, unless—

(I) the person was represented by counsel in the case, or knowingly and intelligently waived the right to counsel in the case; and

(II) in the case of a prosecution for an offense described in this paragraph for which a person was entitled to a jury trial in the jurisdiction in which the case was tried, either

(aa) the case was tried by a jury, or

(bb) the person knowingly and intelligently waived the right to have the case tried by a jury, by guilty plea or otherwise.

(ii) A person shall not be considered to have been convicted of such an offense for purposes of this chapter if the conviction has been expunged or set aside, or is an offense for which the person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored (if the law of the applicable jurisdiction provides for the loss of civil rights under such an offense) unless the pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.
The keys are that if the conviction has been expunged, set aside, or the person has been pardoned or had their civil rights restored then the conviction does not qualify under the GCA.

The restoration of rights does not have to come from the federal government as the law recognizes restorations by states.
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Old December 30, 2009, 11:20 AM   #18
Magnum Mike
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I have a carry permit in Minnesota. I Bought a .22 pistol without any problems walked out the door the same day.. 2 months later went to buy a long gun (shotgun) was delayed for no known reason. Go figure.
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Old January 1, 2010, 02:17 PM   #19
hellisht
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8 days

and still waiting on the FEDS to give me the OK on buying a pistol. Ive got my fingerprint card, lawer papers for retured gun rights and a Voluntary appeal file filled out and going in the mail tomorrow. I will let you know what happens.
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Old January 1, 2010, 05:27 PM   #20
dogtown tom
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Quote:
hellisht 8 days and still waiting on the FEDS to give me the OK on buying a pistol. Ive got my fingerprint card, lawer papers for retured gun rights and a Voluntary appeal file filled out and going in the mail tomorrow. I will let you know what happens.
If you were given a DELAYED response from NICS and have not heard from Scheel's, by now have them call NICS for a updated response.

If you were given a DENIED response from NICS expect at least 145 days before a decision. (at least that was the estimated time in early October).
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Old January 1, 2010, 10:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtown tom
It's been my experience that NICS is one of the most efficient, customer service oriented government agencies I've ever been involved with.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellisht
Ive got my fingerprint card, lawer papers for retured gun rights and a Voluntary appeal file filled out and going in the mail tomorrow. I will let you know what happens.
From my experience, this will take up to 5.5 - 6 months. Be patient. If you do call a NICS operator to ask what they delay may be, they'll be glad to assist you.

Steven
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Old January 7, 2010, 07:41 PM   #22
hellisht
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talked to a guy at NICS today after filing a VAF and was told it could be up to 180 days before the go ahead is given due to the back log of work they have there. :barf:
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Old January 7, 2010, 07:56 PM   #23
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I see. Thanks for the clarification vranasaurus. Not that I plan on any domestic violence, but it's good to know the statutes.
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