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Old December 23, 2009, 11:32 AM   #26
OldMarksman
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Originally posted by Peetzakilla:
Quote:
Call me a heartless coward I suppose, but I can not envision a scenario wherein I would leave my house and family and go into the dark to check on the "bump in the night" of the lady next door.

The lesson here to me is stay in your own damn house. Let the police do their jobs. I will help my neighbors if I can but my family is my priority, I made promises to them not to my neighbor.
Coward, no; wise, yes. The reason to let the police do their jobs is not cowardice. The police are to sworn to enforce the law, trained, and indemnified; they act only under approved procedure, they are properly equipped, and they usually do not venture into dangerous situations alone.

Originally posted by Uncle Billy:
Quote:
As usual, here's yet another situation where an untrained, unauthorized armed citizen attempts to take on the role of a badge-carrying police officer, and the the uncertainty and confusion of opinions, guesses, macho chest-thumping and just plain ignorance that results fills another thread.
Yes, untrained; unsworn; not indemnified; acting alone in the dark; assuming the very real risk of being shot by criminals, other law abiding citizens, or police officers; possibly putting others at risk; and likely having no idea what to do in the event of an encounter.
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Old December 23, 2009, 11:45 AM   #27
Uncle Billy
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OldMarksman: I'm gratified you agree with what I wrote. I'd also like to apologize for the rather abusive language I posted in response to you on a different thread here that was closed before I could post an apology. I ought to have been less personal and negative in making my points than I was but I didn't get a chance to say so there, so I'll say so here. I'm sorry.
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Old December 23, 2009, 11:56 AM   #28
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Rebel
In my area of the country, that is exactly what you would be called. However, I respect your choice as yours to make -probably in a lot of circumstances a wise choice. It does, however, reinforce what my liberal friend at work always told me about the 2nd amendment. His belief was that the 2nd amendment was more about protection of our country and he noted that most gun owners only use it to justify their personal protection. He said that the idea of the gun owners in this country being able to come together as a legitimate fighting force was laughable because he considered us to be some of the most "self-oriented" people he knew.
I would only point out that my choice is not "self-oriented". It is family oriented. My wife and children depend on me. My duty is to protect them. I would die for them. I would NOT needlessly die for my neighbor.

The neighbor has a responsibility to protect themselves. Specifically, he has a responsibility to protect her. Where is their alarm system? No dog? Is she not armed? None of those things are my responsibility.

I am certain that in many places and by many people my choice would be considered cowardice. I wonder though, should I choose to actually go out into the night for such an event, what it might be called when someone is standing by my grave looking at my widow, my 3 year old son and 2 year old daughter. Would it be "heroic" then? Maybe in some peoples eyes. I don't know if my son would accept "Your daddy's a hero." as the reason why I'm not taking him hunting next year like I promised, and I don't think that "hero" would be a good reason why daddy's not there in the morning to get my daughter out of her crib when she wakes up.

So, I can accept being called a coward in some places, by some people. Funny thing is, being a coward to them is part of being a hero to my family.
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Old December 23, 2009, 11:57 AM   #29
QCBrob
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Originally posted by OldMarksman
Originally posted by Uncle Billy:
Quote:
"As usual, here's yet another situation where an untrained, unauthorized armed citizen attempts to take on the role of a badge-carrying police officer, and the the uncertainty and confusion of opinions, guesses, macho chest-thumping and just plain ignorance that results fills another thread."

"Yes, untrained; unsworn; not indemnified; acting alone in the dark; assuming the very real risk of being shot by criminals, other law abiding citizens, or police officers; possibly putting others at risk; and likely having no idea what to do in the event of an encounter".


Like I said, I'm not an LEO or combat-experienced military. Yes, I am a CITIZEN. Albeit, a citizen who continues to take every opportunity to become educated in the areas (legal responsbilities, safety, CCW courses and range classes, shooting frequently, etc) of RESPONSIBLE gun ownership. My posting of this thread was part of that as well - an attempt to learn and share with others who are both more and less experienced / knowledgeable than myself. I honestly wish that I didn't even feel it necessary to own a firearm for self defense, but these are the times we live in.

Next time there is a possible threat situation facing myself or my loved ones, maybe I should just log onto these FiringLine forums and engage in some "macho chest thumping" and "just plain ignorance" while I wait 25 minutes for the cops to arrive.
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Old December 23, 2009, 12:05 PM   #30
OldMarksman
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Uncle Billy, apology accepted.

I probably contributed to the misunderstanding by not explaining very clearly the following, which I believe applies to this thread also:

When one uses a firearm in self defense, no matter how strong the justification may be, if sufficient evidence cannot be assembled to support a case for justification, he may be subjected to criminal sanctions, however unjust that may seem. There is also civil liability. Said risks apply to the OP here, probably in much greater proportion.

In the other thread I did not want to appear to minimize those risk--my point was simply that if I do not draw until the sky is falling, those risks will no longer be paramount in my mind, nor should they be.

Peetzakilla nailed it. Stay indoors. I'll do that even if the noise is in my yard.
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Old December 23, 2009, 12:11 PM   #31
Capt Charlie
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It appears that the issue of involvement has become hopelessly polarized, and the degree of civility here has deteriorated to a point that leaves us diminished.

QCBrob, I'm glad that your incident was resolved without anyone getting hurt, and I thank those of you that posted civil responses, but I think it's time to end this one.

Closed.
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