The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 13, 2000, 09:29 PM   #1
Oleg Volk
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 7,022
I would like to learn the basics of using batons for defensive uses. I am reasoning that they are easily improvised, generally legal and better than nothing. Can anyone point me to on-line or local Minnesotan resources...or offer advice?

------------------
Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
Oleg Volk is offline  
Old June 13, 2000, 11:13 PM   #2
Ivanhoe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 1998
Location: Virginia
Posts: 412
The general gist I've gotten from friends who are into MA is that arts like Eskrima and Silat are really good. There are probably several more that I don't know about. If you're a mere citizen, I dunno if you are going to find someone who teaches a PR-24 specific class.

Here are some URLs I've found that might help; http://www.dogbrothers.com/ http://members.xoom.com/eskrima/ http://www.e-budo.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi

Ivanhoe is offline  
Old June 14, 2000, 05:24 PM   #3
Glamdring
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2000
Location: MN
Posts: 1,388
Oleg there is a place called "Kali group" or some such up in the metro area...they are very good from what I understand. When I was at Hamline I trained with the best hand to hand person I have ever met and that was where he went to spar and drill with people. They get high quality visiting instructors from time to time (Danny Insanto for instance I think).

I don't have the phone number anymore but if you have access to metro phone book should be able to find it with a few calls.
Glamdring is offline  
Old June 15, 2000, 07:13 AM   #4
crobrun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 15, 2000
Posts: 139
Oleg
I've heard this place mentioned favorable. It has a nice selection of arts.

http://www2.bitstream.net/~mmaa/mmaahome.htm

------------------
Rob
From the Committee to Use Proffesional Politicians as Lab Animals
-------------------------------------------------------------------
She doesn't have bad dreams because she's made of plastic...
-------------------------------------------------------------------
bad Kiki! No karaoke in the house!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
You will be assimilated. Resistance is E/I

[This message has been edited by crobrun (edited June 15, 2000).]
crobrun is offline  
Old June 15, 2000, 09:55 AM   #5
Glamdring
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2000
Location: MN
Posts: 1,388
Thanks for the link. I should try to get up there at least once every other month [only a 1.5 hour drive]
Glamdring is offline  
Old June 15, 2000, 11:45 PM   #6
Rich Lucibella
Staff
 
Join Date: October 6, 1998
Location: South Florida
Posts: 10,162
Oleg-
As a student/former student of various martial arts, I'll second the vote for Filipino style in use of the baton/edged weapon. The various Kali/Escrima styles concentrate on range and practical tactics.
Rich
Rich Lucibella is offline  
Old June 16, 2000, 02:45 PM   #7
swifter...
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 1999
Location: So. CA Mountains
Posts: 540
Try http://www.canemasters.com/
Last I looked, they had a video and a no-nonsense outlook.


------------------
The Bill of Rights, and the Golden Rule are enough for civilized behavior. The rest is window dressing. Shoot carefully, swifter...



[This message has been edited by swifter... (edited June 16, 2000).]
swifter... is offline  
Old June 16, 2000, 11:00 PM   #8
Rich Lucibella
Staff
 
Join Date: October 6, 1998
Location: South Florida
Posts: 10,162
Mark Shuee from CaneMasters is well known to me....I urge all traveling to NJ, NY, CA and 47 other foreign countries to check out his products. They're well worth it.

His training dogma is most effective...however, it's also most "Japanese". This is not a bad thing, but it should prepare you for lots of "kata"---basic type repetition. Again, not a bad thing....if you master Mark's style, you'll probably beat the next guy that's carrying a cane....except, maybe, the Chinese cane masters. If you just want to learn to survive a street encounter with Joe-Practiced-in-Prison-with-a-homeade-shiv as quickly as possible, go Filipino.
Rich
Rich Lucibella is offline  
Old June 19, 2000, 11:07 AM   #9
Spectre
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 23, 1998
Location: DC
Posts: 3,274
Good take. The Kukishin stick work I practice is terrific, but depends a lot on good timing and distance. Hard to beat, but time-intensive.
Spectre is offline  
Old June 19, 2000, 02:12 PM   #10
Oleg Volk
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 7,022
I have met someone who's going to teach me the basics of staff handling (she prefers swords but keeps other tools around, too). Ought to be interesting and, just maybe, I will learn without any broken limbs.
Oleg Volk is offline  
Old June 21, 2000, 12:36 PM   #11
KOG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 23, 2000
Posts: 192
Good luck with your training. I further support the idea of training in Kali, escrima for stick training as those arts utilize weapons like the stick very much. You'll learn a lot of other cool stuff there as well.
KOG is offline  
Old June 23, 2000, 04:51 PM   #12
Young Buck
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2000
Location: Havertown, Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 13
I'm not trained in it (heh, technically at least) but logic would bely:
1) pull out suddenly
2) deploy
3)go for kneecaps first, as these are hardest to block for without anticipation.
(Use it at your own risk, I'd recommend a class )


------------------
To ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth.
Young Buck is offline  
Old June 23, 2000, 07:44 PM   #13
ChuteTheMall
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 1999
Location: Sinkholeville Swamp
Posts: 184
Agree with the concept of going for the kneecaps first, unless you get lucky enough to get an opening to attack the face, eyes, head, neck. A poolcue shot (with very fast retraction!) into the solar plexis could be a useful move. Now we have low, high, and midline attacks. I would not try to attack the groin because that is something everyone instinctively defends. But I would not ignore it if it was open. And if a suitable golf club happens to be in your hands, I bet you could really make an impression on the leading ankle.

------------------
Some people have a way with words. Others not have way.
ChuteTheMall is offline  
Old June 23, 2000, 09:47 PM   #14
mooser
Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2000
Posts: 59
oleg, we have a 2day course that we do for security/police/military on defensive tactics. one day of this course is spent on the baton (impact tools). we have developed this course for the use and carry of the collapsable baton. i have never done this course for the general public, but would consider doing so if the interest is there.

sully www.defensive-edge.net
mooser is offline  
Old June 24, 2000, 02:37 AM   #15
LawDog
Staff Emeritus
 
Join Date: September 15, 1999
Location: Where am I going? Why am I in this handbasket?
Posts: 4,194
A kneecap isn't really that big of a target, especially when it's moving about.

The Common Peroneal Nerve, running from just above the mid-thigh line to just above the knee on the outside of the thigh is a bigger target. Plus, a solid, authoritative whack on the Common Peroneal will often cause a sympathetic reaction in the same nerve on the other leg, causing the critter to lose all muscle control below the waist.

The downside to this strike is that it relies on nerve shock to take the critter out of the fight, whereas shattering the kneecap destroys the structural ability of the leg to hold weight.

LawDog

LawDog is offline  
Old June 26, 2000, 02:29 AM   #16
tuc22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 1999
Posts: 367
Take a look at Escrima. Try it's number system for striking. Go slow, injuries are likely if you go too hard too soon. Get a feel for this simple drill of fundamentals. Then start hitting a good bag or Training dummy full power. Soon you be the guy to watch out for on the street.
tuc22 is offline  
Old June 27, 2000, 06:56 PM   #17
Spectre
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: October 23, 1998
Location: DC
Posts: 3,274
Depending on stance, kneecaps may not be that accessible, unless you have a longer stick, in which case an ankle strike (ashi bari) is much harder to stop.
Spectre is offline  
Old July 24, 2000, 04:17 PM   #18
Hard Ball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 3,925
The Japanese Jp is very effective but it is more of a staff thn a baton being @ 40 to 45 inhes long. The man who is credited with inventing it defeated the famous samurai Miamoto Mushshi with one in a registered duel. This was the only registered duel that Miamoto Mushshi ever lost.
Hard Ball is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10839 seconds with 9 queries