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Old March 23, 2000, 09:42 AM   #1
Jhp147
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I am not a knife knowledgeable person, but have been seriously considering a good folder for last ditch application. I like the Applegate-Fairbain Covert (reverseable carry clip, I'm a lefty) and have looked at the CQC7. It's a bit blocky looking, but I find used ones for 70 bucks on Bladeforums. I recall seeing something that made me think an ESI Genesis would be good, but more money than I want to spend on a lark. One guy selling the CQC made the point that I could carry the CQC RIGHT handed for use as a weapon retention device. At any rate, suggestions for something like this, most bang for buck, maybe used? I like the tanto point, ATS-34 steel seems to be popular, but I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for the input.

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When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; IT IS that they shall be destroyed forever...Psalms 92.7
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Old March 23, 2000, 04:46 PM   #2
Art Eatman
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I don't know from nuttin' about self-defense knife-fighting. I think I'd start with some training. It seems to me that what knife you have is much less important than some training in use of most any knife.

Holds true for handguns, anyway.

Regards, Art
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Old March 23, 2000, 04:50 PM   #3
sharp117
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I am no expert,but I do make my own fixed blade carry knives,and my collection of knives by other makers is quite extensive,so here is my opinion for what it'sworth.The CQC7 is an excellent carry folder.I have one clipped in my pocket right now.If you have a choice get the Emerson Knives Inc. CQC.All of it's edges are radiused,and it has a reversable pocket clip for ambi carry.If size is not an issue for you I highly recomend the Emerson Commander.It is what I would carry if legal size was not an issue.You may also want to consider a small fixed blade.They are k.i.s.s. simple,and quick into action.The Boker Bud Nealey Specialist is one outstanding example of the small defensive fixed blade.That is my 2 cents.Good luck,and let us know what you decide on.
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Old March 23, 2000, 07:20 PM   #4
jfrancis
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I'd second the votes for the Emersons. I have both the CQC7 and the Commander. The latter is a bigger knife but has the nifty 'wave' device that will automatically open the blade as you draw it. I love them both.

John Francis
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Old March 23, 2000, 09:08 PM   #5
SB
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In my biased opinion, I highly recommend the REKAT Carnivore. In my equally biased opinion, I agree the Emerson Commander is worth looking into, but disagree with Bud Nealy's knives unless concealment is your highest priority. But, it would be best to go to bladeforums.com and ask there first.
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Old March 23, 2000, 11:24 PM   #6
ROSANGHAL
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I carry both the Commander and the CQC-7. I just recently started carrying the 7 and I like it.

You might also want to consider the Commander. They make a trainer which I just recieved today and if you incorporate it into your training it should make you comfortable with the real thing. My favorite defensive folder is the Commander.

But like Art said, get some training it's more important than the tool.

Ross T.
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Old March 24, 2000, 12:30 AM   #7
Hard Ball
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I have had very good luck with the Emerson Commander. The more I work with it the more I appreciate the design.
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Old March 24, 2000, 07:26 AM   #8
Jhp147
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Thanks, gentlemen. I've settled on the CQC, found a good deal on one at Bladeforum. If I like this whole knife thing, I think the Commander will be next. Training: Hard to find around here, will now look for the right books or videotapes, any input here appreciated, too. I don't want fancy, I like simple, natural movement for very basic results.

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When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; IT IS that they shall be destroyed forever...Psalms 92.7

[This message has been edited by Jhp147 (edited March 24, 2000).]
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Old March 24, 2000, 11:04 AM   #9
Erik
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Don't forget to check local laws regarding blade length. The "but it's just a knife defense" lands many people in hot water.

I've got a Benchmade Mini AFCK M2HSS with unserated blade on my always. The 3.25" blade comes in less than the state allows for, but is the maximum length that several municipalities I live around.

Enrole in a one day edged weapons defense class if nothing else. It will open your eyes. See Bladeforums for LOTS of advise.

Erik
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Old March 24, 2000, 11:33 PM   #10
NAD
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I recently took a defensive folding knife class from InSights. As far as they were concerned most of the fancy high dollar knives are just that. The Spiderco Delica was what they recommended for several reasons. They are relatively inexpensive so when you lose it or have it taken away from you at the airport you can buy another one for 30 or 40 bucks. It has a big thumb hole for easy opening with either hand. The clip is designed so the tip of the blade is up when closed and in your pocket. Most folding knife manufacturers have the blade tip down when in the pocket for liability reasons requiring you to rotate the knife to open it. A defensive knife is for cutting your way out of a deadly force situation. A 2 1/2 inch blade can cut the $hit out of you. A 4 inch blade isn't necessary. Serrated or straight? Who cares. You can't tell the difference when you are cut with it. A smaller knife is also better for liability reasons as well. Just like I wouldn't carry a gun that says "Tactical Model" or "Self Defense Special" I wouldn't carry a "Spec War" or "CQ Combat Model" folder either. Pulling out my Delica to open a letter would draw much less attention than my 4.5in. Black T coated Benchmade.

Another thing I learned from this course was the utility of carrying two knives. One in each front pants pocket. When the fight goes to the ground and one arm is pinned while some dude is choking you, you can slice the length of his leg and arm with the other knife. We practiced this several times with an opponent using the FIST suit. It made a believer out of me and I now carry two Spyderco Delicas.
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Old March 25, 2000, 09:11 AM   #11
SB
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I don't like the CQC. For that price range, I prefer the AFCK. But if you still plan to stick with the CQC, don't forget to check out Ernie Emerson's website. Lots of good resources there.

[This message has been edited by SB (edited March 25, 2000).]
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Old March 25, 2000, 11:11 AM   #12
Jhp147
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Reference the Delica, NAD, I have one and really like it, it is very versatile. I have the CQC7 coming, and see your points. I am picking up a lot of info here, but still would like some input on video training until I can get something more substantial. I will pop over to the Emerson web site ans see what they have, and many thanks for the continued stream of info. I have been to Bladeforum.com, and like it, but I feel a bit more "at home" amongst the TFL folks, though many post over there.
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Old March 26, 2000, 11:54 AM   #13
Blilious
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JHP 147,

Master Bram's leading edge is a basic and simple way of using a knife in self-defense.

After attending his three-day seminar I can say that his method is both practical and easy to learn and use.

Don't underestimate the power of the blade - in close quarters (i.e. less then 21 feet) it is devastatingly efficient.

Did you consider a neck knife - a very good last resort, relatively easy to reach from both sides and allows the carry of a both a fixed blade and a folder (there are some kydex neck sheathes for some spyderco folders) a fixed blade is better of course - if legal to carry in your jurisdiction.

The best knife-to-buck ration is found in the "Woo" by Livesay knives that can be found at this site:
http://members.tripod.com/~Newt_Livesay/index2.html

(Many other option including the spyderco neck sheathes can be found there)

Another option is to go to custom, in which case you have an endless verity but be prepared to pay anything, as high as 250 $ and more.

Option would include Bob Dozier, Bud Nealy, Al Polkowsky, Pat Crawford, RJ Martin, Fred Parrin and many more.

And, as mentioned above - Practice. It's as good advice as it is with firearms - maybe more so.

Hope this helps

BTW - JHP 147 - obsolete, why not go for sig357?



[This message has been edited by Blilious (edited March 26, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Blilious (edited March 26, 2000).]
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Old March 26, 2000, 02:26 PM   #14
Jhp147
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More thanks, the Master Bram gentleman is mentioned in a couple of places. I have looked at the Livesay stuff at a gun show, looks like the most fixed blade for the money. Need a folder I've ordered for best carry though. I definitely do not underestimate the blade, that is sort of why I'm interested. I have been involved in on-scene and after action knife job investigations. I'm always impressed with how dangerous a person with absolutely NO training can be, figured a bit of training could make a person dangerous, a lot could make him exceedingly so. I have seen the Caliber Press video on edged weapon assaults many times, and am respectful of the danger. I will change my screen name when my agency lets me change to a .357 Sig. Gonna be a long wait....

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When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; IT IS that they shall be destroyed forever...Psalms 92.7
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Old March 27, 2000, 12:34 AM   #15
SB
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For Tantos, don't forget the BM Stryker and Cold Steel's Voyager series. If fixed blade tantos are preferred Timberline Aviator is worth looking into. All should be under $100.
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Old March 27, 2000, 01:29 AM   #16
tuc22
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There are many good knives mentioned here, any one of them will work. The thing I've noticed about knives is that many people believe that the skill in using one is somehow natural or instinctive and therefore never practice with them. Just like the firearm, you must practice. What works for me is real full power stabs and thrusts against corrugated cardboard targets and also slashing and combination drills using a foam rubber wrapped cardboard tube planted in a sturdy stand or suspended from the ceiling. You face this target and work your grips, stances, and angle of attacks. If you have a partner practice with rubber knives marked with something that will wipe off and leave a "hit" on skin. Carrying two folders and being ambidextrious in employing a edged weapon will gain bonus points in my book.
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Old March 27, 2000, 10:39 AM   #17
D2V
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Another vote for the REKAT Carnivore. But like someone else already said, the knife is secondary, training is primary.
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Old March 27, 2000, 07:07 PM   #18
theprisoner
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I have to chime in here. As far as knives are concerned I prefer Spyderco's. I know you already purchased a knife but you should take a look at the Endura. It's light, reversible pocket clip and priced right. As training videos are concerned Kelly Worden is my favorite followed by James Keating and Bram Frank. Good luck and take care.

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Old March 27, 2000, 07:11 PM   #19
theprisoner
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I forgot to mention books. Anything by Michael Janich.

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Old March 28, 2000, 02:36 AM   #20
George Hill
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The SOG VISION is a fantastic knife...
Kershaw makes a couple knives designed by Ken Onion - they are very nice. They feature a Speed Safe opening device that legally isnt a switch blade - but opens kinda like one. You can get a Black Out model for about 60 bucks.
Spyderco makes several knives that are perfect for just about everything. The Delica which was mentioned, the Standard and it's bigger brother the Endura are flawless... The Native is my favorite Spydie - with which you can't go wrong.
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Old March 28, 2000, 05:27 AM   #21
tuc22
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Quick, answer these: What is the best grip to use with a folder? Should your defensive response be a cut or a thrust? Is the reverse grip ideal for close quarters or for concealing from long range? -Or do I buy the Spyderco or the Emerson? Which folder looks the coolest and has titanium? After the shopping trip guys, it's time to get down to the martial art of edged weapons. For me a box cutter now is better than that custom knife I can't afford til next month. With all due respect to a lot of good suggestions, I think any good knife mentioned here that fits your budget and that you are pleased with its basic feel and operation is the right one for you now. I carry more than one knife with me at all times while a buddy of mine keeps these expensive knives in his safe and never carries, or more importantly, practices with any knife.

[This message has been edited by tuc22 (edited March 28, 2000).]
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Old March 28, 2000, 01:19 PM   #22
skdtac
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spyderco delica/rescue jr/merlin are inexpensive, high quality tools that you will actually use. how many of you know folks who own $200 folders that are afraid to use it for fear of scratching it? buy what you'll use on a daily basis, and not be afraid to abuse, because that will be the folder that gets "drawn" regularly for mundane tasks- it will become familiar in your hand, kinda like muscle memory. if you lose the spyderco, you're only down 40-50 bucks. the sub 3" blade is legal almost anywhere, and it's so thin and light you would be remiss to leave it at home. no design affords you easier ambidextrous opening and closing that the spyderco thumb hole. don't buy designer knives unless you have the coin to afford it. i don't even offer knives that cost more than $50. stick with cost effective tools like the spyderco 98 series.
regards,
joe

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www.skdtac.com
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Old March 29, 2000, 11:45 PM   #23
jthuang
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jhp, I've also taken Insights's defensive folding knife I and II classes -- the dual Delicas are definitely a good choice.

You're in Texas, right? Insights holds classes in Texas, although that doesn't mean much when your state is so big. Check out http://www.insightstraining.com

HTH,

Justin

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Justin T. Huang, Esq.
late of Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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