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Old December 14, 2009, 04:58 PM   #26
zippy13
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Personally, I would opt to go to Italy and visit Beretta, Perazzi and maybe Fabbri to see their showrooms and ask questions. They may have trial guns to let you see what might work for you.
Good advice, oneounceload. Considering the OPs interest in the highest grade classic doubles, visiting with the United Kingdom's premiere gun makes, too, couldn't hurt.
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Old December 14, 2009, 05:40 PM   #27
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Personally, I would opt to go to Italy and visit Beretta, Perazzi and maybe Fabbri to see their showrooms and ask questions. They may have trial guns to let you see what might work for you.
Good advice, oneounceload. Considering the OPs interest in the highest grade classic doubles, visiting with the United Kingdom's premiere gun makes, too, couldn't hurt.
I sure would try to time it with the driven grouse and pheasant seasons....
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Old December 14, 2009, 06:15 PM   #28
BigJimP
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Some of your optimum specs make little or no sense to me:

light and short (are not optimum, in my opinion, for any of the target games ) .....

double triggers (makes no sense, except as a "fashion" piece) - single, selective triggers are way better and easier to use than any double trigger gun.

If you have no idea what stock specs you need / then you're a long ways from selecting a gun - and need to refine what you need for length of pull, drop at comb, drop at heel ( or do you need a parallel comb gun), and optimum weight for whatever you intend. Most of us that shoot a lot of clay targets / or even hunt birds a lot - are absolutely sure what our personal specs are for a stock. So I suggest you start there.

If you really want a distinct pair of guns - I would suggest you look at Kreighoff as well - http://www.krieghoff.com/content/view/13/63/
the K-80 O/U can be engraved and wood upgraded ( and with a full set of tubes / and carrier barrel for the tubes ) - let your imagination run wild for $ 40K - $ 65K probably. Then add a Side by Side, Krieghoff Essencia - they start around $ 30 K ...and up to $ 65K probably...

http://www.krieghoff.com/index.php?o...=88&Itemid=116

So if you really want to spend $ 150K on a couple of very nice guns - Krieghoff will make most anything up to your specs. You can work with one of their gunfitters - get your specs together, pick the wood, etc ...

but if you like the Italian look - you can go that way as well / but for my money, the K-80 O/U in some configuration that fits you, is a gun that is hard to beat. If you like the S X S ( I don't ..) but then the Essencia model is a nicely made gun as well.
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Old December 14, 2009, 06:22 PM   #29
Doyle
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double triggers (makes no sense, except as a "fashion" piece) - single, selective triggers are way better and easier to use than any double trigger gun.
I guess I'm the odd man out. I've got a Beretta 685 with double triggers (I've never seen another one like it in the US but I've heard of a couple). I don't think I'll ever want a single selective trigger on a double barrel.
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Old December 14, 2009, 06:33 PM   #30
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To each his own Doyle ....you've probably had them a long time and like them ...that's fine. I'm just too old ( and too set in my ways) to learn new tricks .... Others may disagree too ....there are guys that really like double triggers - especially on some of the old SXS's / like Purdy's, etc.

But for a competition gun, I wouldn't want to hesitate or 2nd guess myself for a second to select a trigger - vs letting the trigger reset and fire the 2nd barrel / while a lost quail is not that big a deal ...a lost target in competition can be a real big deal.

Even when I hunt birds / I don't select between barrels too much ( especially if we're hunting over good dogs) - and often, I choke both barrels the same / fire the lower one first/ the upper 2nd ..just like I do in Skeet.
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Old December 14, 2009, 06:38 PM   #31
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double triggers (makes no sense, except as a "fashion" piece) - single, selective triggers are way better and easier to use than any double trigger gun.
Jim, my friend, on this I will strongly disagree with you, on a FIELD gun. DT's allow IMMEDIATE selection of the proper choke for the birds as they fly. IF the gun is for clays, or if both chokes are the same, then it is not a factor; but IF the gun is variably choked like IC/M or similar, then DT's for feathers flying is a great idea whose time has not passed.

As to the K guns - while nice, they just don't have the hand-built panache and feel that others do. No doubt that they are well-made, excellent choices. A gentleman I shoot with has the Essencia in 20. IMO, for 35K, his engraving is sub par and the stock was not custom made to fit - two things on a gun at that price that should be accommodated.

For 35K, a H&H or even a Purdey are within reach and they WILL be built to bespoke specifications; although, for MY money, I would be looking to Spain for a matched pair or trio from Arrizabalaga, Grulla, AyA, or Arrietta..........

JMO
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Old December 14, 2009, 06:49 PM   #32
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I don't suppose OneOunce and others - that I should suggest you get those S X S's fit for screw in chokes ..... ( just kidding ...) .../its christmas, don't boil me in oil ....

I know what you're saying for Field Guns - OneOunce and Doyle too .... If a S X S actually fit me, without a ridiculous amount of stock work ... I might give the double triggers a try.

I've only seen one Essencia in person / and it was an impeccable gun at about $ 32 K as I recall ( the dealer let me put on white gloves / and hold it ..) ... I don't dispute the issue that Krieghoff is kind of a tank / compared to some of the guns you suggest from Spain, etc ... it does, afterall, come down to fit.
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Old December 14, 2009, 07:09 PM   #33
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Jim - find a nicely used AyA or Uggie for a few bucks, have it fitted for a few bucks, and then get it modified for a few bucks - you'll appreciate how it feels. I suggest a 20 gauge
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Old December 14, 2009, 07:31 PM   #34
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But if I reconfigure it - with a custom made parallel comb stock ( so it fits me ...) / doesn't it defeat what you guys like about the "feel" of these older guns ?

Its certainly going to look a little strange .... or a little like an AyA in a Browning configuration .... Doesn't it defeat the purpose of why you guys like these guns .....and why it doesn't fit "a buffalo" like me very well ... I'm 6'5" and still 290 ( maybe 300 lbs, its xmas cookie time ..) with baseball mits for hands....

I appreciate the craftmanship on these S x S's - so I get what you mean and why you guys like them ... / but its the same reason I drive a big SUV vs an italian sports car ... I could put a sports car logo onto the hood of my big Lexus SUV ....but its still a "buffalo hauler" vs nimble and quick ....and I like my "buffalo hauler" ...and my "trap stocked O/U's ..." ...for skeet, bird hunting and sporting clays ... I even have my Browning XS Skeet models, 20ga ( and the 28ga and .410 ) all weighted to 8 1/2 lbs and all of them have 30" barrels ....
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Old December 14, 2009, 08:33 PM   #35
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Actually, with a straight grip and DT, you'd be surprised how your other dimensions might be just somewhat different than your typical trap-style pistol-grip, parallel comb gun....

You oughta try it sometime - you might be surprised.....
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Old December 15, 2009, 08:23 AM   #36
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Jim, while we are on this subject you mentioned something that I need clarification on. In responding to my post, you mentioned letting a 2nd trigger reset. Can you clarify? I can pull the one that I want first and the other immediately after it.
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Old December 15, 2009, 11:32 AM   #37
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I wasn't clear Doyle sorry ..... what I was trying to say ..on a single trigger gun, you have to release the trigger after you fire one barrel, and let the trigger reset, so you can fire the 2nd barrel. If you don't let the trigger ease forward and reset - you can't fire the 2nd barrel on a single trigger gun.

Its only my opinion - but that unconscious action of letting the trigger reset - is easier to me, than finding a 2nd trigger ( but you guys might be right / maybe I should get a S X S - reconfigure the stock - and try it a little ..).

Maybe I'll look for an old Fox or Purdy ... and see what I can do with it ..
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