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Old November 3, 1998, 06:17 PM   #1
Rob Pincus
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Okay, since I got a shiny (shining?) 6Z Surfire in the mail today (thanks Rich.., I guess I'm going to have to learn how to use it.

Until now, I have sworn by the "state trooper" style back of the hand to back of the hand method. this is primarily because I like carrying the flashlight witht her left hand, near the bezel with the end of the handle resting on my shoulder during cursory search, inspection and interview. I like the advantages this gives me if I need to use the flashlight as a weapon, while drawing or otherwise.
So know, I want to know if any of you have experience with the "Rogers/Sure Fire" technique? Also, have any of you made the switch from 3/4 cell Maglite to the sure-fire and then missed having the big sucker in your hands when the interviewee became an agressor??
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Old November 3, 1998, 08:23 PM   #2
Spectre
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Rob,

I have a 6-cell maglite. I love it. (it's my 3rd) I like holding the light exactly as you mentioned, butt on shoulder. I first bought the light when I was doing security in Ohio. I didn't have the funds to purchase both an ASP and a light at the time.

I have a 6P now. It's a great light, and although I prefer the Maglite as being more adaptable as a weapon, the Surefire is certainly more suited to "high speed, low drag" environments. I think you'll have to try the Rogers method to see if it works for you.

You are probably aware of this, but you may find a small secondary flashlight helpful. There are many situations where the tremendous power of the 6P will actually be a liability. YMMV.


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Old November 3, 1998, 08:27 PM   #3
Kodiac
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Congrats Rob...
I don't know what the different styles are called... But I shoot large handguns... and I like to keep BOTH hands on the gun. I also use a Stinger rechargable light... It is small enough to be there when I need it and brighter than most other lights... with the exception of the big mag chargers.
When used together I hold the light between two fingers. Cigar style. It is the easiest way to keep the point of aim and center of the light beam together. Even while fireing my hot Cor-Bons.
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Old November 3, 1998, 08:40 PM   #4
Rob Pincus
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That "cigar-style" is the rogers technique. In fact, I'm going to start calling the "cigar technique." (not to be confused with the "cigar THING", made famous by Clinton and Lewinsky)

That's two things I've learned here already, the mozembique gang sign and the cigar technique.

Anyway, I was messing around with the flashlight a little while watching the election results and I think I wil definitely like shooting with it. Much more confortable than the back-2-back method. The B-2-B method also tends to wear you out during a search of any length....
Hopefully I'll get around with some night shooting one night soon. But I may still have that 4 cell in my hands for some situations. Most of the guys have big rechargable jobs installed with the chargers in their patrol cars and a mini-mag or surefire on their belt. Being a reservist, I don't have that option, so I have just been carrying the 4 cell on the belt.
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Old November 3, 1998, 10:35 PM   #5
Rich Lucibella
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Rob-
I don't know whether you recieved any accessories with the light. Two that make sense are the lanyard and the rubber slip on ring.
The ring allows your to use the Rogers technique far more easily. FWIW, I prefer Rogers to Harries. Unfortunately, Rogers doesn't work well with lights that don't have the end cap pressure switch.
Rich
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Old November 3, 1998, 10:53 PM   #6
Rob Pincus
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oh yeah, it came with the whole package, I can't say I'll use the lanyard, though I know it makes sense (especially for reloads..) but the rubber grip ring was installed when I opened it up. That's why I wanted one of these!
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Old November 4, 1998, 06:35 AM   #7
Hilton
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The lanyard is very handy for retaining the light, but can pose a problem if you want to ditch the light during a scuffle. I found that slipping a few fingers, but not the whole hand, through the lanyard allows for retention and ease of releasing the light. The Surefire polymer holster is also excellent if you're using it on a duty belt.

For a quick usage, the Harries (back to back hands) tech. works ok, but is more tiring and more difficult to use if holding a position or working around a barricade/doorway. I like the Rogers tech. b/c it places the light and weapon in line with one another without affecting your stance (if you're using a "new isosceles") much. It's quite stable during firing.

[This message has been edited by Hilton (edited 11-04-98).]
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Old November 4, 1998, 09:11 AM   #8
chris in mo
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Rob, I have a 6P and love it. I have found that the the gun I am shooting determines which technique I can use. The cigar technique will work with my 1911, but not with my Taurus 85 UL. With the little revolver it makes the light point way low. I preferr the Harries technique for this reason, it works no matter what gun I am using.

I am not an LEO so I am not going to be doing building searches. If something goes bump in the night, the 3 cell mag light is right under the bed. The Sure Fire is small and easily taken with me where the mag light is way too cumbersome for constant carry.

I chose the 6P over the 6Z because while trying them out it seemed that the 6Z excelled for the cigar technique, but was less adaptable for the others than the 6P. Enjoy the new light.
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Old November 4, 1998, 05:49 PM   #9
Don R
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I'm a big fan of SureFire's, I have carried a 9P for several years now, with a lanyard and a red flip-up lens cover.

If you get involved in a balls to the wall scuffle, use the lanyard like a garrotte.
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Old November 15, 1998, 10:00 PM   #10
snoman
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Rob,
I use a Surefire 6r/6p and love it. One of the features I like is the ability to use the 6r as a kubaton. But it still has a downfall, you have to use two hands to use the light and gun at the same time. That is why I went with a H&K USP .45 with a UTL.
It is brighter thon the 6p and I can still upen doors, block blows, or pick my nose if I want..
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Old November 16, 1998, 02:01 AM   #11
SB
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Oops! Apparently, Hilton already said everything I was thinking of.

[This message has been edited by SB (edited 11-16-98).]
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Old November 16, 1998, 09:52 AM   #12
Rich Lucibella
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One of the Gunsite instructors (Troy?) has developed a skeletonized "glove" to hold the Surefire. Mykl and I previewed it quickly a couple of months ago. Might make some sense for tactical situations.

I'm not certain if Gunsite is selling these as yet, but I suspect so.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited 11-16-98).]
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Old November 18, 1998, 08:35 PM   #13
Harry Humphries
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Mag 6 cells are certainly configured for the rigors of tough duty. They are massive and very good as a hand held utility light. You Law Enforcement types need to be aware of the liability factor if you are forced into it's use as a blunt weapon resulting in a lethality. They are not built for that purpose and I suggest you contact the nearest ASP rep. Such as Ron McCarthy.

If using the Mag there is no better shooting technique than Harries.

The 6 & 9 Z Sure- Fire Combat lights are the greatest thing since brunch if you are looking for a light designed to shoot in low and no light situations. They both are designed to be held in cigar, Laser, Caracci, or Rogers style- that is in a fashion that allows the shooter to utilize the weak or off hand to get full push pull isometric tension with the strong hand while still maintaining a full final grip. I highly recommend use of the laniard around the wrist as it frees up the weak hand to reload or work weapon stoppages, etc.- a simple flip of the forearm places the light back in your grip. It may not be an effective garrote, however as the retainer ring may tend to slip off the light body under high tension - try it out. Secondly, if the light is to be your primary tactical light do not use rechargeable, such as NiCad, batteries they have a discharge curve that drops off like right now and you are S.O.L. with no light or advance notice. The lithium one time batteries are superior for tactical use as the discharge curve is gradual and the user gets plenty of advance notice of diminishing reserve energy as the beam intensity falls off with battery life. They are pricy just under $5 per battery but Sure-Fire sells case lots at half that price as their entire light system is based off of Lithium technology.

Look at the retro-fit lenses that will give you red, blue, or even IR capability. They fit over the bezel like a boot and have a flip over lense capability if white light is required.

With any white light usage in a shoot or search scenario - DO NOT stand in one place while scanning the room or area with light. Practice pulsing the light on only momentarily long enough to acquiring the scene than move at least two paces laterally left or right in darkness.

If using the light to search and you wish to maintain visual purple - use the blue filter as it will illuminate blood trails. Red is absorbed by blood color and does a great job of hiding those very important red lines on maps or charts. Last off all remember mirror mirror on the wall - be sure to search in a down angle or you will get mirror zapped.

If you are looking for an expedient shoulder fired weapon light try screwing the push button cap in until the light is energized than back off just until the light goes off. Sandwich the light against the fore-stock with the weak hand and apply grip pressure - the light will activate under pressure and deactivate when grip pressure is let up.

Call Amy at (800) 336 - 8616 if you want more information about Sure-Fire tactical products.

By the way I love Maglites and really am fond of ASP's new Baton Light as well.

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Old November 18, 1998, 08:41 PM   #14
Harry Humphries
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How about IR systems?

[This message has been edited by Harry Humphries (edited 11-18-98).]
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