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Old December 1, 2009, 08:25 PM   #51
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So letting someone steal my car and living to dealing with insurance companies makes me a coward? Interesting.
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Old December 1, 2009, 08:33 PM   #52
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letting someone steal my car and living to dealing with insurance companies makes me a coward
If you say so.

But think first about what really happened, before you come to that conclusion. But I think I have hijacked this thread enough. Feel free to PM me if you wish to discuss further.

Ah, wait it is your thread... never mind.
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Old December 1, 2009, 08:42 PM   #53
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20 rounds in one magazine/chamber is enough. That's just my opinion.
How often do you practice failure drills?

Personally I always carry a spare mag. Why? Most of the failures I've seen with pistols (or rifles for that matter) were caused by mags.

I'd rather have 2 7-round magazines than 1 20-rounder.

My opinion comes with a money back guarantee.
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Old December 1, 2009, 11:33 PM   #54
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I was carrying my 638 one time when my wife and I were walking in a public park area that has some fairly secluded parts. Here comes this Homey mobile with 3 Gang member looking types cruising the road that meanders through the area. They were definitely checking us out. A tactical change in direction took us away from their approach and through some cover that still allowed me a glimpse of their car as it creeped by. At that point I was struck by the fact that one of my high capacity compact semi-auto pistols (Glock 19/USPc) with an extra magazine would have been a much better choice than a 5 shot revolver with a nearly useless "speed" strip.
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Old December 1, 2009, 11:47 PM   #55
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every instructor i've talked to isn't real big on revolver as a primary, because of the # of shots. Most carry 15+1 with 1, usually 2 spare mags. Out here in AZ< most also have a trunk rifle. A revolver is still 1000000000000000% better than no gun.

Situations like Vlad's hammer the point home.

I'll definitely carry a revolver as a backup, but not my primary.

Every encounter is different though, so maybe 5 is enough, maybe not.

Maybe 46 won't even be enough. Never know.......
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Old December 2, 2009, 04:25 AM   #56
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A semi auto with 15+1 and a Kimber LifeAct in my pocket keeps me feeling pretty secure in my neighborhood. For that matter my PM9 with 6+1 will do when weather doesn't permit heavier clothing or a jacket. Deadly force is not always the only option. The pepper spray is a good alternative to taking drastic action. I can and did choose where I live and where I work. Fortunately both are low risk areas. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Something to consider on a daily basis.
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Old December 2, 2009, 05:51 AM   #57
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Specific events with their own unique circumstances can't be addressed by answering a general question.

Five shots is enough in most shootings.

It's not enough in a smaller %.

All you have to do is make sure that the shooting you're involved in isn't one of the smaller % that needed more shots, and you will have been well armed with your five shots.

Since I get more paran....I mean more concerned, as I get older, I'll leave five shots to my back up and keep carrying an auto.

I will admit that sometimes I carry a P220 Compact with a mere 6+1 and 8 rd. reload. and another 7 rd. in back pocket--plus my 5 shooter. There is the option to change to the 8 rd. if there's enough warning.

Last edited by Nnobby45; December 2, 2009 at 05:58 AM.
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Old December 2, 2009, 10:57 PM   #58
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For the record, my carry gun is a compact semi auto in at least 9mm 95% of the time, but that episode reinforced the fact that with only slightly more effort I can easily carry a vastly superior ballistic package, so I think sometimes I would compromise too easily and settle with the J frame. I now carry my J frame (in a Kangaroo holster) only when I am dressed in slacks and a tucked in dress shirt with no jacket or when I slip it into my pocket to take the trash to the parking lot dumpster.

Last edited by vox rationis; December 2, 2009 at 11:18 PM.
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Old December 3, 2009, 06:26 PM   #59
Lee Lapin
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As often as this discussion comes up on various gun boards, I never see anyone open a discussion titled "How Much Training Is Enough?"

Everyone just loves to gabble on about hardware, no one seems to want to talk about software...

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Old December 3, 2009, 06:58 PM   #60
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Another issue that appears to be missing from this thread is the training factor. If you carry a revolver, how many times do you practice reloading with a reloader while on the run? If you carry a semiauto, how many emergency reloads or tactical reloads do you practice?

Assuming you carry the number of rounds that makes you comfortable, and further, assuming you carry more than one magazine or speedloader, you really do need to practice timed reloading. Murphy's law will apply and if something could go wrong, it most likely will at the most inopportune time. Being able to empty the casings from the cylinder or the magazine from the well should be practiced under pressure. Amazing how important a couple of seconds can be when the lead is flying.
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Old December 3, 2009, 09:14 PM   #61
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Great questions .45 Gunner.

I do practice re-loading my carry guns... Both revolvers, and autoloaders. I was taught a drill called " combat reloading" It's not at all difficult, and anyone can do it with a little practice. I'm going to start a thread on reloading under fire... and I'll share it with anyone interested.
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Old December 5, 2009, 11:54 PM   #62
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I used to live in a bad neighborhood and I particularly remember in an instance where I felt under equipped when I walked out of my apartment and a bunch of thugs who lived above me who wheeled and dealed were hanging in the parking lot they all stared at me as I walked on by, and I only had 8 rounds on me (kimber 1911) and there were about 20 of them just hanging around. Come one of them decides they want whatever I have on me I would have to kill two birds with one stone literally... I'd have a better chance giving them what they want, and if that wasn't enough I would have to go kamikaze style. Now I either carry an extra 8 rnd mag, or I carry my sig p229 9mm that holds 15+1 plus P golden sabre hollow point rounds. and even than I still carry another 13 rnd magazine right behind that
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Old December 6, 2009, 12:16 AM   #63
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As far as "how much is enough," I'll echo what a previous poster touched on earlier: I highly doubt there's ever been a survivor of a gunfight who wished he/she had a smaller gun or fewer rounds but I guarantee that there have been plenty who wished they had more.

One instructor I know once said: "The definition of an optimist is the man with a J-frame and a speedstrip."

Now as I said in another thread on this subject, I'm not knocking small guns. I've got a J-frame sitting here on the desk right now...but I also have a Glock on my hip. I realize that some may work in an environment where they have to go with deep concealment and therefore, a smaller gun. Otherwise though, it's not that difficult to carry a decent sized gun during one's day-to-day activities. I carry a G19 and a spare mag (among other things) every time I walk out the door and don't find it to be an inconvenience. Would a smaller gun be more comfortable? Sure, but it's also much harder to shoot well, harder to manipulate, and has a far smaller capacity.

Originally Posted by Lee Lapin
As often as this discussion comes up on various gun boards, I never see anyone open a discussion titled "How Much Training Is Enough?"

Everyone just loves to gabble on about hardware, no one seems to want to talk about software...
That's probably because sweat and hard work aren't as sexy as the newest blaster. Don't you know that carrying "X" automatically gives your deadliness factor a bump

For the record, there's no such thing as "enough" training.
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Old December 6, 2009, 12:54 AM   #64
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The topic isn't about training though. It is a foregone conclusion that one needs good training and good practice. And actually, after going through the effort of going to a pistol course where one presumably shoots a full size pistol or a compact (I shot a Glock 19 during a recent pistol course I took), why would anyone then elect to carry a j frame or mouse gun if it wasn't absolutely necessary

One instructor I know once said: "The definition of an optimist is the man with a J-frame and a speedstrip."
That's exactly what I thought after the "epiphany" I had, as described in my earlier post .
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Old December 6, 2009, 11:22 AM   #65
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Lee's point is well taken and sometimes folks have argued they don't need training (just a few). Anyway, I tried to take an intensive snubby course. Signed up and got the ammo, made the motel reservations and the instructor bailed (got the deposit back, though) and was never seen again.
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Old December 6, 2009, 01:30 PM   #66
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One part of the topic that I haven't seen yet (Or missed) would be Murphy's Corollary "Anything that can go wrong will, in the worst possible way, and at the worst possible moment".

For this reason My personal minimum is 24 (1+7+8+8). Otherwise known as a 1911. Two spare mags may never be needed but that once in a million time that I have to use it to defend myself would be when old Murphy would pop up at round 3 from mag one and dictate a reload to clear a mag fault. No spare mag, could mean a really bad day for me and I am not into having bad days that I can plan to avoid.

Now I own a J-frame also so do not take what I have said as diminishing small handguns. My choice of the J-Frame was for really deep concealment as my comfort level for everyday carry is somewhat more than what I think a small revolver or pocket pistol provide.

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