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Old December 1, 2009, 05:07 PM   #1
HisSoldier
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FFL only required to recieve firearm.

This has come up many times since I got back into shooting. One store told me to stop using them for transfers because they were afraid of receiving firearms that didn't have a signed FFL with the shipment. I asked my gunsmith, he said yep, you have to have an FFL to send a gun across state lines. My pastor said no, it's even posted in Gun Broker that only the receiving address must have an FFL. From the Gun Broker website;

"You do not have to be a licensed dealer to sell a firearm. By Federal law, the person to whom you ship the gun must be a licensed dealer. If the buyer is not a licensed dealer, the buyer must make arrangements with a licensed dealer in his state to receive the firearm and transfer it to the buyer. We have very in-depth information on shipping firearms legally on our Firearm Shipping Guide page. Never, under any circumstances, ship a firearm without following the steps on the Firearm Shipping Guide page! Shipping illegally is a felony and will earn you a one-way ticket to prison."

So, I ask a Fedex driver, he says he buys guns all the time through GB, and he says both ends have to have an FFL. I'm pretty sure that's wrong.

So, then, if I take the gun to FEDEX and send it overnight, I have to state the contents as a gun right?

But what if they don't know the law and think I have to have an FFL to ship? Any advice? Thanks, I have to ship a gun this afternoon or tomorrow and don't want to get dinged again when I sell it. Buy the gun, Kaching! to the gunsmith, sell the gun Kaching again, plus paying the overnight. Makes me want to get out of shooting.

Thanks for any advice.
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Old December 1, 2009, 05:26 PM   #2
NavyLT
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I hate the ATF FAQ's.... but, in this case, straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unli...ensed-transfer

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
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Old December 1, 2009, 05:34 PM   #3
NavyLT
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HOWEVER, the part of the faq about having to notify the carrier by Federal law is incorrect and the BATFE admits that it is incorrect.

18 USC 922(e):

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/1...2----000-.html

Quote:
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
The statute makes it illegal for an unlicensed person to ship interstate (out of state) a firearm to anyone OTHER THAN a license holder (FFL). IF you are going to ship the firearm interstate to anyone other than a license holder, ONLY then are you required to notify the shipper - and it has to be in writing. If it is staying within the same state OR it is going to an FFL, notification to the shipper is NOT required by law.

UPS and FEDEX have company policies that require you to inform them of the firearm, however, but it is not law.
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Old December 1, 2009, 05:37 PM   #4
NavyLT
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Take the FEDEX tariff with you:

http://fedex.com/us/services/terms/

A. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
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Old December 1, 2009, 06:58 PM   #5
Frank Ettin
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But the thing is that some FFLs just don't want to receive guns from non-FFLs. It's not a legal requirement. It's a business practice. I'm sure they have their reasons. You or I might or might not think they are good reasons, but that doesn't matter. It's the FFL's prerogative.
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Old December 1, 2009, 07:00 PM   #6
DiscoRacing
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ive sold five this past yr on GB and have shipped them via ups.... I dont have a FFL..
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Old December 1, 2009, 07:05 PM   #7
Dragon55
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""It's the FFL's prerogative.""

And that's the beauty of capitalism some folks prerogatives are different than others.
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Old December 1, 2009, 07:08 PM   #8
DiscoRacing
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I didnt know that you could send a firearm via Postal Mail either.... but the last pistol that I got off GB was sent via priority mail.
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Old December 1, 2009, 07:47 PM   #9
HisSoldier
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The dust has settled!

I sent a nice Colt 1903 to a C&R using UPS, had to be next day air. $65.11.




I guess any sales from now on will be FTF in state. I ended up netting $285 for a nice 1903.
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Old December 1, 2009, 10:43 PM   #10
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoRacing
I didnt know that you could send a firearm via Postal Mail either.... but the last pistol that I got off GB was sent via priority mail.
You can't (mail a handgun), but an FFL can. Or maybe your seller committed a federal felony. A non-licensee may mail a long gun to an FFL.
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Old December 2, 2009, 12:01 AM   #11
docpadds
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Quote:
You can't (mail a handgun), but an FFL can.
Incorrect. An FFL is allowed to take a package containing a handgun to the Post Office, explain how its not a shotgun or rifle in the 12 inch square box, argue that we ARE allowed send to other dealers, wait 15 minutes while they check with higher ups, make them read part CO24 of the postal manual, wait another 10 minutes while they argue over the AREA CODE!!! on a note with copy of the license (Yes I said area code not zip code!) and then finally not understand what the heck a 1508 form/affidavit is.

Ok that was just a rant.

Sorry I mean yes, only an FFL can use USPS for a handgun, we just have a special process we have to go through LOL But then when you ship a lot $17.50 insured Priority mail is a lot less then the cost of Fedex/UPS. But then when Fedex comes to the door to pickup all i have to say is "Hey John, got more guns for you"
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