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Old October 7, 2009, 11:50 AM   #1
Big G
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Shipping primers ????

UPS is telling me that you have to be an established HAZ-MAT shipper to ship primers.No one time deals. I have shipped primers in the past by paying the haz-mat and regular shipping charges. Anyone actually know the low down on shipping primers? HELP

Last edited by Big G; October 7, 2009 at 12:17 PM. Reason: sp
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Old October 7, 2009, 01:09 PM   #2
Christchild
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I don't have any answers, but I believe that if You know a gunsmith (FFL) that is established per Haz-Mat regulations, You can go thru the 'Smith.

I'll be watching replies to this thread, because I am curious, as I have primers for sale.
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Old October 7, 2009, 01:17 PM   #3
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Just got forced to sit through 12 hours of HAZMAT training last month...

... ouch.

Anyway, pistol primers are definitely HAZMAT; they were an example we looked at in one of the class sessions.

Not having a 49 CFR in front of me, or an IATA (International Air Transport Association) guideline in front of me, all I can tell you is that primers should fall under class 1.3 or 1.4, IE Class 1 Explosive Subsection 3 (minor blast or projection hazard) or Subsection 4 (no significant hazard).

But you could look up those classes and references online, if you wish.

In any case, it may well be easiest for you to ship via licensed HAZMAT shippers.
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Old October 7, 2009, 01:39 PM   #4
Big G
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1.4s un0044
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Old October 7, 2009, 01:59 PM   #5
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Looks like you found an IATA, Big G

In which case, when you look up the UN number, you'll find cross-references that will take you to sections that will tell you what sort of packaging and labeling is required, and whether specific shippers (UPS, DHL, FEDEX, etc) or countries of origin, destination, or transit have any additional restrictions or requirements.

Then there are separate forms that have to be filled out for ground vs air shipment (49 CFR bill of lading vs Declaration of Hazardous Goods - HAZDEC).

It's painful, sorry.
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Old October 7, 2009, 02:05 PM   #6
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I spent about twenty minutes at a fed-ex/ups mailing store this morning. The lady called and someone at fed-ex told her to go ahead and accept the package like it was not haz-mat. I told her sorry but no way because I knew it should of gone haz-mat, what I did not know is that an idividual can not ship a HAZ-MAT package? Now I guess I get to go make a man mad at me and refund his money.
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Old October 7, 2009, 02:09 PM   #7
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Big G...

... the thing about HAZMAT is that it can get you into a lot of trouble, quickly.

For one thing, the packaging and paperwork have to be just so. The packages have to be UN certified, with appropriate markings; the numbers in the markings have to do with max weights allowed for shipment in the containers - every marking has significance. Furthermore, the closures have to be UN approved. Typically, this is 3M 355 tape - and very specifically 3M355.

For another thing, screwing up the paperwork or packaging can result in serious fines, and in some cases prison.

I'm sorry you may have to cancel a sale, but that's better than running a serious risk. On the other hand, you can do a web search for licensed HAZMAT shippers, and ship the order through a certified third party. Probably your best bet.

Good luck,

M
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Old October 7, 2009, 02:14 PM   #8
Big G
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Yes, thanks. I should of checked before hand. I made an assumption.
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Old October 7, 2009, 02:24 PM   #9
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Trying to find some HAZMAT help for you online...

.... but so far, have just found a lawyer's site indicating that since 2005, fines for screwing up HAZMAT shipments are now $50,000 per incident...

So far, no luck with google.

However, you could try calling your local DOT branch, and see if they can recommend anybody in your area who can legally prepare HAZMAT for shipment.

EDIT: FedEx has a division called White Gloves Services, that specialize in HAZMAT. I don't know if they will actually pack and prep for you, but if they don't, maybe they can recommend somebody?

1-866-280-1810

http://www.fedex.com/us/services/cus...ove/index.html

Last edited by MLeake; October 7, 2009 at 02:35 PM.
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Old October 7, 2009, 10:48 PM   #10
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I am haz-mat transportation specialist. I primarily design and test UN certified packaging, but I work with many explosive companies.
One does not need to be "licensed shipper" to ship hazmat--but one does need to be trained in the regulations to offer haz-mat for shipment. UPS does not do one off shipments, they require a require a contract and a rep to do this. Fed-Ex will take hazmat at the counter, but it must be properly prepared for shipment.
I will need to look up the particular packing instruction when I get in tomorrow--I don' keep my books at home, but I may well be able to supply off the shelf packaging for shipping. I don't know how much of a need there is for this.
I want to emphasize that it is a bad idea to ignore the hazmat regulations and ship undeclared explosives. There is much focus in enforcement on this these days and if caught, the trouble will be substantial.
If you sell this stuff to local people and deliver it yourself there is no problem--as long as you are not offering it for shipment "in commerce."
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Old October 7, 2009, 10:54 PM   #11
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Jay, thanks and if you will let us hear back from you on this.
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Old October 9, 2009, 11:02 PM   #12
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133 Receptacles Receptacles Boxes.
PARTICULAR PACKING REQUIREMENTS OR EXCEPTIONS:
1. For UN 0043, 0212, 0225, 0268 and 0306 trays are not authorized as inner packagings Intermediate packagings are only required when trays are used as inner packagings
fibreboard
metal
plastics
wood
Trays, fitted with dividing
partitions
fibreboard
plastics
wood fibreboard
metal
plastics
wood steel (4A).
aluminium (4B).
wood, natural, ordinary (4C1).
wood, natural, sift proof walls (4C2).
plywood (4D).
reconstituted wood (4F).
fibreboard (4G).
plastics, solid (4H2).

This is the packing instruction for UN 0044, Primers, Cap Type, 1.4S.
The best way to package these is to use a combination package tested for liquids at the PG II performance level. Since steel intermediate containers are allowed, one could use a paint can package tested with liquids and enclose the primers in their chipboard box or use an auxilliary bag as the primary receptacle. DOT has said, in a letter of clarification, that solids may be shipped in combination packagings certified for liquids as long as the solids won't compromise the receptacle and the gross weight limitations of the package are respected. Just make certian you use cushion material around the primers in the cans. I woudl use something like anti-stat bubble--it is readily available.
Just google 4G paint can packaging and you have many to choose from in online catalogs.
I am not going to pimp mine here, that makes me feel sort of weird.
But remember--someone trained must be involved to mark (UN ID number: UN0044; Proper Shipping name: Primers, Cap Type), Label: 1.4S and the name and addrees of either the consignor or consignee (or both) the package and:
The shipping paper must be filled out correctly and if it the case, as stated elsewhere in this thread that these primers are: UN0044, Primers, cap type, 1.4S, , II, that will be your basic description on your shipping paper. There are many things about the shipping paper (dangerous goods declaration) that I cannot go into here.
Just follow the packaging manufacturer's closing instructions.
There may be a hazmat freight forwarder near you or I suppose many FFL's are trained since they ship this stuff routinely. This is a crappy system for the occasional shipper--we literally spend years figuring this all out before it becomes comfortable. I messed up a DHL shipping paper recently and was really embarrassed, but as packaging manufacturer, I actually don't offer much so it is a struggle to remember all the details.
I train for my company, I should put together a webinar for general awareness, and function specific training for shipping ammunition for the firearms community.
Don't forget that for UPS and Fed-Ex there will be quite a charge for a hazmat package--i think they are up to around $30 plus the actual freight fees.

Last edited by ljaycox; October 9, 2009 at 11:07 PM. Reason: tired typist
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Old October 9, 2009, 11:31 PM   #13
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ljaycox...

... while you're providing advice, what are the weight limits for primers for ground and air transport, per package? OP will probably need that info, to know how many packages he'll need to divide into.
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Old October 10, 2009, 01:00 PM   #14
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Per the hazmat in 172.101, column 9, UN0044, 1.4S, air shipments would be restricted to:
Passenger aircraft: 25kg/completed package and 2.5kg/inner container (assuming metal or plastic)
Cargo Aircraft Only: 100kg/completed package and 10kg/inner container (plastic or metal)
This is from Column 9 of the hazmat table and 173.27(f) General requirements for air shipments.
Surface shipments would only be limited to general packaging requirements/limitations for non-bulk shipments (400kg and 400 liter liquid volume for the package See: 171.8 definition of a non-bulk packaging), explosives do not have bulk packaging authorizations.
Note that UPS does not carry cargo aircraft only shipments.
Fed-Ex will accept CAO.
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Old October 10, 2009, 01:06 PM   #15
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This certainly has been educational!
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Old November 12, 2009, 12:52 PM   #16
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BUMP! Plus Some Info...

I'm bumping this Thread, since this is where I read what I thought was my ticket to sell/ship primers and/or powder.

This is a PM sent to me, today, of information obtained. While other areas/regions MAY be different, here's a Heads Up....

Quote:
I've checked with UPS, FEDEX, USPS. They all have the same story. They'll ship from a licensed manufacturer to a licensed distributor. To ship individual to individual, the package would have to be packed by a certified packer (licensed by ups, fedex or usps) then shipped. I found a man in your area that can do the packing but he is not certified by ups, fed ex, usps. He doesn't believe in going to their school and doing what they require. He ships motor freight (freightline companies) He said the cartons would cost $50. The Hazmat Fee would be $35.00, and his personal cost would be $50.00. Then I would have to pay the freight which would be a minimum of $75.00 dollars.
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