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Old March 15, 2009, 10:12 PM   #26
Wildalaska
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Kenny knows where I live and I feel relatively safe
Until I show up at your door wielding two Nagant revolvers, wearing a Budyenny helmet with a colander facemask, a dress and high-heels, while screaming "Sniff my thong, vile swine!".


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I just love that colander!
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Old March 16, 2009, 04:17 PM   #27
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Until I show up at your door wielding two Nagant revolvers, wearing a Budyenny helmet with a colander facemask, a dress and high-heels, while screaming "Sniff my thong, vile swine!".


WildanddudethatthongwillbequiteyummyafterthelongplaneridetoyourplaceAlaska


Oh Gawd! Someone PLEASE HELP ME SCRUB THIS PICTURE FROM MY MIND!!!
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Old March 16, 2009, 09:43 PM   #28
dalegribble
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this has happened to me before at cabelas and sportsmans warehouse. when they ask for my # i say it is unlisted. if they insist i always say my # is (fill in your own area code) 555=1212. i figure it always works in the movies. i have done this a number of times and only once at sportsmans warehouse did the salesman catch on. he stopped writting, looked at me like i was crazy, shook his head and continued writing. i got my gun he walked me to the front door and that was that.

i'm not sure why they ask for your phone # but if the really needed it i figure there would be a space for it on the form. they get enuff info and i don't like giving them any more than required.
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Old March 22, 2009, 01:59 AM   #29
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My local shop does the same thing. I asked why, they said even though two people double check the 4473 forms they occasionally need to contact the individual who filled it out because there was a mistake in the paperwork or to call them to clear a 3 day hold.

That phone number could be a pre-paid house or cell number or just something random I make up. It's actually usually my home number, if the ATF wants to find me they have my address and SSN on the stupid form to find me.
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Old March 22, 2009, 03:18 AM   #30
IZinterrogator
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Originally Posted by BobH
My point is that your desire to do business does not trump my right to privacy if I insist upon it. It is not my role in life to make it easier for you to profit from my trade. In fact, your profit is, IMO, justification for constraining your trade to my desire for privacy.
Once upon a time, I had something I purchased from Wildalaska stolen. It was insured, but I didn't have a copy of the receipt, so I told my insurance agent to call Wild. The agent called me back ten minutes later; apparently, Wild told the agent to do something anatomically impossible. I think my info is safe with him.
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Old March 22, 2009, 10:56 AM   #31
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Never will I buy anything from Cabelas...never!
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Old March 22, 2009, 01:09 PM   #32
Glenn E. Meyer
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Hi: I'm Glenn!

I gave my phone number to the gun smith where I bought a used gun and he did some work on it! He called me.

Can a Higher Power save me?

BTW, when I bought a pistol at Cabelas ( big sale), I don't remember this song and dance. I just showed my CHL and bought it.

Wait, the black heliocopters are over TX and I hear shots at the Cracker Barrel.

Another BTW, since you posted here - the evil overlords coming for your guns can probably find your identity fairly quickly.
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Old November 8, 2009, 10:26 PM   #33
sixgun67
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Along these same lines, I went to Dick's Sporting Goods last week. Picked out the guns I wanted. Pulled out my CCW and drivers license. He said he didn't need the CCW. They won't accept CCW anymore, they must make the call. He said it is new policy. However, before I got my CCW, my background check was delayed EVERY time--which is one of the reasons for the CCW. And, he wanted the phone number on the top of the 4473, along with no abreviations, all states and such had to be spelled out. And, where it says "optional" for your social security number, he says "required". I grudgingly complied, only saying that since I'm delayed so much--there will be NO SALE if I'm delayed. Dick's is such a long drive for me, I'm not going back another time.
I have no room for retailers that want to trump my rights and make me jump thru hoops. I've only done business with them once, and that is enough for me.
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Old November 8, 2009, 11:46 PM   #34
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Until I show up at your door wielding two Nagant revolvers, wearing a Budyenny helmet with a colander facemask, a dress and high-heels, while screaming "Sniff my thong, vile swine!"
Well, at least you'll be wearing clothes this time

We ask for phone numbers in case a mistake is found on the form. Sometimes control numbers or serial numbers get transposed, and we don't catch it until we're matching the books later on. It'd be nice to clear the whole thing up with a ten-second phone call.

As Al mentioned, giving out that information to an unauthorized third party is absolutely verboten, not to mention bad business. Frankly, my phone number is about the least compromising piece of personal information someone could have on me.

As far as big-box retailers refusing to bypass the NICS check with a CCW, I may be able to offer some explanation.

There have been massive sting operations over the last few years on gun dealers. Some have been busted, rightfully or not, and as a result, they're playing everything as close to the vest as possible. Some are insisting on calling the check in, even with a permit, to cover all possible bases.

The larger a corporation, the greater its aversion to possible liability. Cabela's and Dick's likely have an army of attorneys telling them to do this so as to reduce potential risk. This sort of thing is in no way exclusive to the gun business.
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Old November 9, 2009, 12:37 AM   #35
Rich Miranda
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Does Cabela's not just fill the form and give a pass for folks with a CCW?
I never bought a gun there but every other place has made me fill out the form (but then doesn't call it in) even though I have my CHL.

Now that I think of it, it doesn't make sense. Why fill it out if it's not necessary? I suppose the business needs it it for their records to establish what happened to that particular gun, but why not just use a bill of sale?

As for what happened at Cabela's, I applaud you for aggressively going after the information, etc. You are doing me - and all legal gun owners - a favor. Thank you.
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Old November 9, 2009, 01:43 AM   #36
Tom Servo
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Now that I think of it, it doesn't make sense. Why fill it out if it's not necessary? I suppose the business needs it it for their records to establish what happened to that particular gun, but why not just use a bill of sale?
It is necessary. An FFL has to have a 4473 for every gun sold. That's a federal requirement. Think of it as a very thorough, government mandated bill-of-sale. Some state CHL/CCW permits exempt the seller from having to call in the NICS check.

At issue here is the fact that some retailers insist on calling in the NICS check, despite the presence of a permit that exempts the buyer and seller from having to perform it.
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Old November 9, 2009, 02:44 AM   #37
Rich Miranda
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It is necessary. An FFL has to have a 4473 for every gun sold. That's a federal requirement. Think of it as a very thorough, government mandated bill-of-sale. Some state CHL/CCW permits exempt the seller from having to call in the NICS check.
OK, I get that the law requires it, but it is still unnecessary in that the form is designed to collect information which will be used to determine whether I am legally entitled to buy a firearm when, in fact, my CHL already establishes that fact. I do understand the 'sophisticated bill of sale' concept but then they should not require you to answer all of the questions (are you a fugitive from justice? Yes, with a CHL.). Then again, Federal law trumps state law, so I'm still checking yes, no, no, no...

But the discussion is academic since 1) I don't mind filling out the form, and 2) since when do government regulations make sense?

I was mostly just airing my stream-of-consciousness thoughts.
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Old November 9, 2009, 07:29 AM   #38
publius42
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I give out my home phone number to businesses all the time. It doesn't have a phone hooked to it, goes straight to fax. I don't care what they do with it. If they send a fax, it'll show up on my wife's computer. If I really want them to get hold of me, I'll give them my cell number.

Until recently I was in sales, and my real cellphone number and a couple of my real email addresses were scattered about online. Now they're secret.
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Old November 9, 2009, 03:13 PM   #39
CUBAN REDNECK
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Go somewhere else

If you feel that they are really doing this, I suggest you buy somewhere else.
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Old November 9, 2009, 05:42 PM   #40
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When they ask for my number I give em wildalaskas havent had a call yet....
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Old November 10, 2009, 06:52 PM   #41
KyJim
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Does anybody think the ATF can't use your name and address and all that other information on the form to look up your phone number?
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Old November 10, 2009, 07:28 PM   #42
63chuck
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Why shop at Cabelas? Sale prices are too high. All Chinese products I use the big thick collector catalogs to shoot .22's into, don't even take them out of cardboard. Support your local shops, before the big box stores run them out of business.
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Old November 10, 2009, 08:28 PM   #43
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There are at least two municipalities in my state (Illinoize) that have municipal ordinances requiring any gun shop in town to report all sales to the police department. One is Chicago Ridge, the other is Orland Park.

Oddly, both those villages USED to have gun shops, but no longer do.

Of course, since municipal ordinances are hidden under bushel baskets in most cases, there could be hundreds of others I just haven't learned of.


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Old November 11, 2009, 12:49 PM   #44
KyJim
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Oddly, both those villages USED to have gun shops, but no longer do.
You have to wonder if that might not have been one of the reasons for the ordinance. Kinda' sad either way.
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Old November 11, 2009, 02:40 PM   #45
Don P
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As stated on a different thread get on the ATF web site and under publications place a order for the ATF rules and regulations, and yes they do this for free. I have to say that if the ATF wanted your phone number when purchasing a firearm the would have provided a space for it on the 4473. I have been unable to find anywhere in the ATF regs that states the form has to be faxed to the FBI. I would believe the ATF over some nit-wit behind the counter at a store. If you had the regs with you you could ask the nit-wit or head nit-wit to show you in the book where the ATF wants the 4473's faxed to the FBI.

As far as Cabelas goes, they can urineate up a rope for all I care
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Old November 11, 2009, 02:52 PM   #46
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Guys, please actually FOLLOW a thread before just posting to hear your own voice.

Post #16 demonstrates that this was a stupid gun counter employee, and NOT a Cabelas policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
I got a call from one of the general managers at the Cabelas store here in town... I must confess that I've pulled a brain fart on his name, but it was about 1/2 an hour ago.

He confirmed that it was absolute smoke being blown by one of his staff. He was very interested in the particular clerk's name, which I also confess to not making a note of in my frustration from the initial encounter. I'm bad with names. :-)

Cabelas does NOT fax their 4473's to the FBI. The purpose of the phone number is in the case of errors on the form, or in the event of a 3-day hold order from NICS. He is going to educate his folks exactly in regards to workflow of 4473's as well as agencies that have lawful access to the forms.
Net result: There were dumb employees that need better training, and are going to not only be trained on WHY they collect particular info... they are also going to be better trained on who gets access to the 4473 records if law enforcement needs it.

That's a good thing.

Can I get a mod to lock this thing now so we don't perpetuate some sort of rumor that, while founded from factual statements from a dumb employee, has no real truth to it?
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Old November 11, 2009, 03:25 PM   #47
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Gladly, AzRedhawk.

Closed for the reasons stated in the post above.
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