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Old November 7, 2009, 05:48 PM   #1
Departed402
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M! Garand... no clip?!

I recently recieved an M1 Garand, but a clip didn't come with it... (you see where this is going )

Is it needed?
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Old November 7, 2009, 06:25 PM   #2
Chris_B
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No. It's no problem at all. Unless you feel like shooting the rifle...

Single shoting the rifle is possible but its a PITA. The M1 is not like other internal mag rifles where you can press rounds into the mag and you're good to go

Who did you get the rifle from?
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Old November 7, 2009, 06:28 PM   #3
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Yes.

Cheaper than Dirt has some.

Also, do not shoot off the shelf loads without replacing the buffer plug with one that will vent excess pressure. Modern loads will bend your Op Rod.
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Old November 7, 2009, 06:52 PM   #4
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They are available as shown here........http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=145720549

Get a bunch, they're cheap enough and have a habit of disappearing.
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Old November 7, 2009, 06:55 PM   #5
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i've seen them at military surplus stores for a dollar a clip.
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Old November 7, 2009, 06:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Who did you get the rifle from?
It was my great-uncle's. He's a Korea and Vietnam vet. I don't think it was "his" rifle in Korea, but at some point he decided to buy one, but yeah, no clip.
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Old November 7, 2009, 07:12 PM   #7
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No Clip--No Problem

old Sneaky Pete here: When I carried an M1 Garand in the Marines in the 50s Except for the "Rapid Fire Phases" all other Record and Familiar strings were fired "Single Shot" No clip. Load 1 round at a time and Watch your Thumb when you let the bolt fly. The only time the clips came in handy was when you wanted to put a lot of round down range fast--like in combat. and now at club matches in all the slow fire phases loading a full clip + a 2round clip is NOT allowed. Hell that's the same wth the "Mouse Guns" 1 round at a time, the same with the "Bolt Gunners . THANX--SNEAKY
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Old November 7, 2009, 07:22 PM   #8
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Yes, well…

Another option would be to buy some surplus M2 ball – the rounds are already installed in the clips and you’ll be using proper ammo for the system. Obviously the clips can be used over and over again, you’ll have an ample collection at no charge.
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Old November 7, 2009, 07:27 PM   #9
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Old November 7, 2009, 07:27 PM   #10
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Load 1 round at a time and Watch your Thumb when you let the bolt fly.
Not trying to scare you here, and no disrespect to old Sneaky Pete, or my father and the Marines who taught me to do this at a tender young age, but DONT do this. If your going to load single rounds, get a SLED (Single Loading Enhancement Device) and use it.

I had a slam fire (rifle fired out of battery) in one of my M1's during a match while loading the rifle as described above and as I was taught. The only reason I'm typing this now, is because it was a slow fire string and the rifle wasnt in my shoulder when it happened. If it had been, the piece of the receiver that was blown off would most likely gone into my head, instead of off into who knows where. The rifle was trash and I had a nice torn gash in my palm from the op rod handle.

The SLED is basically a modified "clip" that allows you to load one round and, for the most part, release the bolt and load the rifle safely, just like you do with a loaded clip.
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Old November 7, 2009, 07:44 PM   #11
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Also, do not shoot off the shelf loads without replacing the buffer plug with one that will vent excess pressure. Modern loads will bend your Op Rod.
Can someone explain this to me some more. I obvliously don't want to damage my great-uncle's old gun. So, no 150 grain 30-06 bullets?
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Old November 7, 2009, 08:03 PM   #12
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Interestilng, the accuracy of the discussion of the M1 Garand's "clip".
It is one of the few firearms that actually use a clip as opposed to a magazine.
Snark snark.

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Old November 7, 2009, 08:05 PM   #13
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There's a lot of great material on the 'net about the Garand.

The short version is that it was designed for a particular load (bullet weight and type of powder). It is a gas-operated gun. If you use rounds loaded differently than the design load, the gas pressure curve for your ammo may be different enough from the correct stuff that it'll hurt (bend) the operating rod.

There are also some issues to be aware of regarding the free-floating firing pin and dimpling the primer by simply chambering a round.

Fulton Armory has great material about the rifle. Please read up on it.

Garand is a wonderful rifle but you can hurt yourself pretty badly if you don't know where you've deviated from how it was designed to be used. Commercial loads are a deviation. Operating without a clip is a deviation.

I keep asking my three rifles where they've been but... so far I can only imagine......I sure wish they could talk.
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Old November 7, 2009, 08:18 PM   #14
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Clip - no
en bloc - yes
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Old November 7, 2009, 08:20 PM   #15
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www.odcmp.com

Go on the forums, M1 Garand.

It is a wonderful, wonderful rifle. Lots of good info on that site about 'em.
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Old November 7, 2009, 08:23 PM   #16
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buffer plug - no
gas plug - yes
adjustable gas plug - schuster
+1 on the op rod damage potential with commercial ammo, due to the pressure curve. Schuster adjusted properly = commercial ammo.
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Old November 7, 2009, 08:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Can someone explain this to me some more. I obvliously don't want to damage my great-uncle's old gun. So, no 150 grain 30-06 bullets?
To enhance what others have said-

The bullet weight isn't the issue. The powder used in the .30-06 the rifle was designed to use isn't as 'hot' as today's powder. Some manufacturers do make a M1 rifle specific .30-06 round today; its marked on the box

Otherwise, you have two choices:

1) An adjustable gas plug which will allow you to use commercial .30-06

2) use the ammo the rifle was designed for. There's more than just ".30-06". The M1 rifle was designed to use M2 ball, a type of .30-06

Don't use M1 ball, and don't use .30-06 Government; neither are M2 ball

If you get some M2 ball in 'spam cans', be aware that some are actually not packed in en bloc clips at all. I got some made in 1972 last year that was on 5 round steel stripper clips for the BAR and the Springfield 1903 rifle. I have plenty of clips so I just transferred them to the en blocs. The ammo comes in bandoleers if you get spam cans; you may even see bandoleers with big safety pins in them- these were used to bunch up the strap of the bandoleer to fit the wearer better. I've heard the bandoleer size described as "one size fits only Goliath"

I may be able to scare some clips up for you, if you like
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Old November 7, 2009, 08:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Clip - no
en bloc - yes
Um. thats the same thing. Are you trying to say that they aren't clips? Cause thats just not right.
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Old November 7, 2009, 08:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Not trying to scare you here, and no disrespect to old Sneaky Pete, or my father and the Marines who taught me to do this at a tender young age, but DONT do this. If your going to load single rounds, get a SLED (Single Loading Enhancement Device) and use it.
Ummm, thats the way its done in high power matches, single loading w/out a clip in Slow Fire Standing, and the Slow fire pone at 600 and 1000 yards. Start the round in the chamber, Push down on the follower with your thumb, and release the operationg guide with the heel of your hand.

If you got a slam fire, then something else was wrong, either a high primer or improperly sized case during reloading.

Yeah single loading devices have started showing up but they arnt needed. Wack your thumb once or twice you'll learn to do it right.

Shooting single shot with a Garand using a special clip is a kin to hunting upland game without a tie, Unethical.
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Old November 7, 2009, 08:56 PM   #20
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It wasnt a reload, factory LC69 as issued. Rifle was a DCM (pre CMP) rifle. Like I said, I was taught to slip a round into the chamber and let the bolt fly, and had always done so up to that point. I no longer do so.

As far as I've seen, the SLED is an accepted and encouraged device for single loading. If your not using one, then at the very least, dont let the bolt slam home, but ease it down and set it with the heel of your hand.

Fulton Armory has a decent read on the subject...

http://www.fulton-armory.com/SlamFire2.htm
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Old November 7, 2009, 09:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Otherwise, you have two choices:

1) An adjustable gas plug which will allow you to use commercial .30-06

2) use the ammo the rifle was designed for. There's more than just ".30-06". The M1 rifle was designed to use M2 ball, a type of .30-06
no you have three options.
your two, plus reloading.
there are several powders on the market today that make great m2 substitutes.
imr4895
and
h4895, are two of the most well known garand powders.

m2 ball prices have sky rocketed.
i was getting greek not that long ago for around 125 per spam can.
several years ago the korean stuff was $89per 480rds, the bandilers of the corrosive stuff was even cheaper.
times have changed......
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Old November 7, 2009, 09:25 PM   #22
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M1's generally don't slam fire when using a fully loaded clip. This is because the bolt is slowed when stripping the round and pushing it into the chamber. Single loaded rounds may slam fire if the bolt is allowed to freely fly forward from the lock-back position with nothing to slow it down. The free floating firing pin could have enough inertia to set off the primer. This can be avoided by not releasing the bolt until it roughly covers the follower. The reduced travel restricts the velocity of the bolt. Sleds do come in handy though.
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Old November 7, 2009, 11:23 PM   #23
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I hope the discussion here has convinced the OP that there's more to it than just buying some ammo and going shooting ......
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Old November 8, 2009, 09:58 AM   #24
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Joneeman, I sent you a PM.

GregM
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