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Old October 30, 2009, 03:16 PM   #101
OJ
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I think we're all in general agreement here-



The only cruelty I see is not getting seconds for dinner - or, at least, treats on request.

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Old October 30, 2009, 10:14 PM   #102
pwillie
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When I was a kid ,growing up was quiet an experience,dog control was a pound,and if the dog wasn't picked up,the truck was backed up to a big airtight box,and the animals were put to death through carbon monoxide poisoning.Cat control was taken care of by my father.In todays world,people have money to take care of animals,and cruelty is not accepted.But if this depression that our country is going through,stays the course,animal care will be less important.AS far as killing a lobster while he is looking at you,hmmmmmm.your not hungry!WE boil live crabs all the time,and none of them have ever objected.Cruelty is in the mind of the beholder.To me, Keeping a good hunting dog in an apartment all day while your at work is just as cruel as killing the dog.
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Old October 31, 2009, 12:29 AM   #103
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I just went down to the keys for lobster season, they ARE delicious!
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Old October 31, 2009, 12:44 AM   #104
sgray
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Amen!!! I completely agree.

I try to explain this to my nonhunting friends. I hate seeing any animal killed by a car, mistreated etc. Hunting and using the animal, as long as it is done as quickly as the means legal at the time allows, is fine. I explain, I do nto mind killing an animal, even though, I admit I feel bad about it sometime, but that;s how the circle works, right. But, I hate the thought of hurting them, that's why I only take good shots, that I know the chances of wounding only are minimal. The couple of times, in my 40 years, when I have thumped a deer hard, not been able to get the followup, and then not recovered them - after hours of searching, have made me sick to my stomach.
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Old October 31, 2009, 09:45 AM   #105
shortwave
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Keeping a good hunting dog in an aptartment all day while your at work is just as cruel...
Can`t agree with you more. Nothing makes me shake my head more than seeing certain high strung breeds of dogs(especially larger breeds) owned by people living in places where the dog can`t/doesn`t get the right exercise. Then the dog gets unruley and the owner can`t figure out why eventually deeming the dog 'no good'. When in fact the owner was to ignorant to have a dog in the first place. People need to consider their housing/yard space,how much time they`re willing to spend with dog, along with researching the breed of dog BEFORE buying. To do less is cruelty!
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I think we`re all in general agreement here
OJ, thanks for some more pics of your mal-nourished, mis-treated mastif`s. We(I think I can speak for the rest) always enjoy looking at them, they`re beautiful.

Last edited by shortwave; October 31, 2009 at 09:52 AM.
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Old October 31, 2009, 10:45 AM   #106
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OJ, thanks for some more pics of your mal-nourished, mis-treated mastif`s. We(I think I can speak for the rest) always enjoy looking at them, they`re beautiful.
Thanks for the kind words - sadly, we lost Charley's little (205#) beautiful litter mate sister to bone cancer in July just after her 5th birthday -



She was the "alpha" dog in the litter - we've had trouble accepting her loss and I think its been hardest on him - he is still learning to make his own decisions on things like when to eat - where to sleep - etc.
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Old October 31, 2009, 11:46 AM   #107
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OJ ,sorry for your loss. Always very hard and only time will heal. Be thankful for the goods memories as I`m sure she was thankful for the 5 yrs. of excellent care.
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Old October 31, 2009, 12:07 PM   #108
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Thanks - we've lost many dogs in the past but had a chance to accept the passing - due to age and/or length of disability coming on - Katie went from a slight limp to being unable to do steps in less than two weeks. Hard for all of us.
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Old October 31, 2009, 01:35 PM   #109
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When I'm not worried about winning the debate...

... because I've written off the other party as wearing rose-tinted glasses (which in my more mature moments I realize could be a counter-productive perception)...

... I like to point out "cute" animal behaviors to the rose-tinted-glasses hugger, and let them know what they really mean.

Such as the kitten, on its back, playing with the ball of yarn.

"Know what he's doing? Practicing holding his prey with the front claws, and raking out its guts with the rear. Cute, huh?"

Or the puppy, shaking a stick.

"Cute, isn't it, how he practices breaking a rodent's neck?"

The huggers tend to be deeply offended, but it quickly becomes obvious that most of them actually have no understanding of the animals they so dearly wish to protect.

I like cats, and I love dogs, but I don't view them through a Bambi or The Fox and the Hound Disney lens.

Then again, my cute little JRT loves to turn mice, moles, rats, frogs, and lizards into a pink mist at every opportunity...
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Old October 31, 2009, 02:16 PM   #110
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My cats have a pretty short life cycle, of course they are barn cats and never have been in the house. They will greet me at the front door and walk between my legs as I make my way down to the barn. But these are working cats and not pets.

At any one given time we have around 10 cats but that can go much lower and a little higher. The coyote's and fox keep the cat population under control while the cats keep the rat and mice population under control.

Every once in awhile my daughter will become attached to one of the cats, that's fine but it becomes less of a hunter. I enjoy watching them stalking the fields and I am amazed how they can sneak up on birds.

We have not had much luck with dogs, they have all been house dogs but they are not as smart as the cats. Our last dog lasted two years until he found the road and was at the wrong end of a passing truck.

The cats are important and they keep me from having to use traps and poison. I am sad when I have to put one down because it was on the losing end of a battle with a larger animal. When the cat population takes a sudden drop we also know we have a larger predator problem.
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Old October 31, 2009, 03:55 PM   #111
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Anyone else here think the way I do?
I do. I am a hunter and a frontline-mebmber of Greenpeace.
Animals die. We die. A clean and sudden death after a good life with kind-fitting conditions is all this world can offer, it's a gift.
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Old November 1, 2009, 10:58 PM   #112
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There is no excuse for causing any living thing- be it an a bug or a stray cat- intentional pain/suffering. Doing so is the sign of a sick person. I have no problem with hunting and have hunted regularly for the past several years.

I may be the unpopular one here but I do not see anything wrong with trophy hunting in many cases. Africa is a perfect example. I hope to hunt Africa one day (Cape Buff, Wart Hog and a land Hippo) and some people may have a problem with that, but I know the fees from my licenses/permits will go towards the conservation that will ensure those animals (that btw have no purpose/value to most locals and would otherwise be killed off to make room for cattle and sheep) are there for my children to hunt. It has already been proven that countries that outlaw big game hunting like Kenya see drastic reductions in animal numbers.
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Old November 6, 2009, 09:45 AM   #113
Uncle Buck
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Biggfats, are you saying that hunters contribute to the welfare of animals? That hunters contribute to the conservation of habitat and wildlife? You made a wonderful point with your post.

I wish more people would understand how much money hunting actually pumps into these animal.conservation programs. Even the guys who do not hunt, but just shoot, put money into the conservation program through the tax dollars they pay when they buy their ammunition.
You are correct when you mention the money used in the African countries that go towards wildlife conservation. But it is a dirty little secret that the animal rights people do not want to admit or acknowledge.
I am too lazy to look up the federal act that taxes all our hunting supplies for conservation. I am also too lazy to look up how much money we, as hunters, raised for these programs.

Edited to get over my laziness:
OK, here is a quick look at what we (hunter/fishermen/outdoor sportsmen and women) have raised.
Info taken from: http://www.nraila.org/issues/factshe...ad.aspx?id=124

Hunting is an integral part of the fabric of our economy and cultural heritage and it is also an important wildlife management tool. Everyone benefits from the excise taxes that hunters voluntarily pay on guns, ammunition and outdoor equipment. Since 1937, hunters have contributed over 4 billion dollars through the Pittman-Robertson Act for the benefit of all wildlife species. These dollars have been used to purchase millions of acres of public lands.

Through over 10,000 clubs and organizations such as NRA, Ducks Unlimited, Safari Club International, National Wild Turkey Federation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and Quail Unlimited, sportsmen contribute an additional $300 million each year to wildlife conservation activities.

From the same article:

Hunting is an essential component of effective wildlife management, in that it tends to reduce conflicts between people and wildlife and provides incentives for the conservation of wildlife habitats and ecosystems on which wildlife depends.

Through legislative programs designed to channel funds back into the conservation process, hunters have restored populations of deer, elk, antelope, turkeys and ducks to record numbers.

Hunting contributes over $30 billion to the economy each year, supporting over 1,000,000 jobs. (National Shooting Sports Foundation)


Hunters and fishermen fund nearly 75% of the annual income for all 50 state conservation agencies. Through license fees and excise taxes on arms and gear, sportsmen contribute $200 million per year for wildlife conservation. (U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service)


Now just think what people would say if they really knew the facts and what they would say if the government did not tax us and instead spent this money out of the general fund.
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Last edited by Uncle Buck; November 6, 2009 at 09:54 AM. Reason: To add facts to my post.
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Old November 7, 2009, 02:49 AM   #114
Dallas Jack
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Cruelty of any kind (against animal or humane) should not be tolerated. (although I admit I have had to kick a few dogs in the tookus to break up a fight)

Quote:
People are animals...just a little smarter.
Not even close. We have the same needs but that's about it. Still humanes are part of the food chain and luckily at the top.

And that phrase "only humanes kill for___" is the biggest bucket of pig crap as ever been spoken.

I hunt and eat what I shoot except for ferals and predators. In the hunting fields (where I hunt anyway) a feral dog or cat is shot on site.

Coyotes and feral dogs will kill as many goats as they can catch and leave em lay.
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Old November 7, 2009, 07:00 AM   #115
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I posted this story here last spring. A friend of mine who was with me when we saw this happen and read my post corrected me on a few details. I'll never forget how I felt after seeing this little drama play out:

About 40 years ago a friend and I were driving on the freeway well out of town, in farm country. We were behind an old pickup with an elderly man (70's or so) and a kid in it, and a dog that looked like a Labrador Retriever and some large sacks in the back. A rifle lay in the rack across the rear window. We were all going about 70 or so; the pickup was in the left lane passing a semi; I was about 5 car lengths back of the pickup in the same lane.

When the pickup got next to the tractor, the kid in the pickup made the universal hand sign for "blow your horns" out his window. The semi driver gave a couple of toots on his air horns, which so startled the dog that it leapt out of the pickup bed and went under the semi's trailer. The semi pulled over, the pickup pulled over ahead of him, and I pulled over too, behind the semi.

The farmer got out of his truck and walked purposely back toward the semi, where the driver was halfway out of his cab. I didn't see that he'd taken the rifle until he was very close. We all froze when we saw it, waiting to see what the farmer had in mind. He walked past the semi without speaking or even looking at the truck driver, past me without looking at me to where the dog was laying, I followed a few yards behind.

The dog was all mangled and obviously hopelessly injured. It was trying to get up but its back was clearly broken- its hind legs were inoperative, a front leg was nearly severed, and it had deep, bloody wounds on its head and body. The farmer squatted down next to the dog, touched the dog's head gently with his hand which calmed the dog a little, then stood up and shot the dog with the rifle. He turned, his face wet with tears, and wordlessly walked back to the pickup, again without looking at the truck driver or me, got in and drove away. The semi pulled out and left as well; I had to stay for a moment until my eyes dried.

I have subsequently heard of a number of incidences just like this one. I would have thought it to be an "urban myth" but I saw it actually happen.
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Old November 7, 2009, 08:54 AM   #116
shortwave
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Uncle Billy, having twice been in that situation with pets myself, IMO, farmer did what had to be done. Owning an animal has many responsibilities, a few not at all pleasant. As a owner of pets we have the responsibility to keep our animals in as safe an enviroment as possible but whether its city or rural life,things happen.
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