45ACP OAL Bullseye

tac_driver · November 6, 2009, 11:29 PM

I have the Lyman 49th edition and for a 225 LRN they are saying the OAL is 1.272" With my Colt 45Auto i need a OAL of 1.227" minium
I'm trying to use a 230gr. LRN projectile with Bullseye and this OAL.
4.0Start 680f.p.s.- 5.0MAX 815f.p.s.
Would like to see what "Quickload" results would be like at this OAL. So anyone with that program plese chime in. Thanks for any help you can provide.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · November 6, 2009, 11:45 PM

As long as you don't go under the minumum OAL, you are fine. And as far as 225 or 230 grain....use the same load data for both. 5 grains isn't gonna make a difference, but still be sure to work the loads up and never start with max (of course you already knew this

).

tac_driver · November 6, 2009, 11:54 PM

believe it or not the minium OAL in the Lyman 49th edition, pistol and revolver 3rd edition, and 48th edition all list 1.272" as minium.
There isn't any data on the alliant website for that combination.
Speer #14 says 1.270".
The only one that comes close to my OAL is Hornady 7th edition.
But I find there data so vague. was looking for a quickload result whit this combination at my OAL. Thanks for the reply.

darkgael · November 7, 2009, 06:08 AM

What data are you looking for? Pressure or velocity?
I'm guessing that there will be little to no difference in performance between the two seating depths.
Load'em so they fit in you magazines and go shoot.
Owning a Colt myself, I am curious about why you need a 1.227 minimum. Most often we hear about concerns over maximum length as opposed to the minimum.
Pete

tac_driver · November 7, 2009, 07:07 AM

These bullets have a small shoulder on them (Midstates cast 230 gr.) Using a heavier crimp, I got them out to 1.235 max now but 1.227 fit better. comes to be just flush with the hood of the barrel. At 1.245 I can get them to work in the gauge. but at that length they stick in the barrel and come to a little over the hood of the barrel.
I see that the min length for Win 231, Universal, TiteGroup is 1.200" I wonder why Bullseye which is a fast Powder like TiteGroup requires a longer OAL.

lomaxanderson · November 7, 2009, 03:50 PM

I load lrn and fmj to OAL of 1.240...flawless in both my 3" 1911's...with bullseye and magnum primers...

darkgael · November 8, 2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

I see that the min length for Win 231, Universal, TiteGroup is 1.200" I wonder why Bullseye which is a fast Powder like TiteGroup requires a longer OAL.

Perhaps I've something to learn. OAL....I've never heard of OAL being dependent on the propellant being used. It is dependent on the bullet as bullets of the same weight may often have shanks of different lengths and thus, when seated to feed properly, produce different OALs for the same powder charge.
I just loaded some Hensley and Gibbs 185s last night that produce a cartridge that has an OAL of 1.190". More than that and too much bullet is exposed. The propellant is 6.0 grs of SR7625. I also loaded some 230 LRN bullets using the same powder charge. Seated so that there is about a dime's thickness of shoulder showing they are at 1.298". Jacketed 230s with different ogive have a different OAL at 1.240". The difference in OAL is dependent on the bullet not the powder.
Take a look at two Lyman bullets at 200 grains - 452460 and 452630 - with the same powder charges one produces an OAL of 1.161 and the other 1.235.
If I am mistaken in this analysis, I am open to new info.
Pete

**Mal H** · November 8, 2009, 10:52 AM

Like darkgael is implying, I am finding your posts a bit confusing. Why does your particular pistol "[Colt 45Auto] need a OAL of 1.227" minimum"? The OAL is generally dictated by the configuration of the bullet for a particular caliber/cartridge.

Quote:

I see that the min length for Win 231, Universal, TiteGroup is 1.200" I wonder why Bullseye which is a fast Powder like TiteGroup requires a longer OAL.

Another confusing statement. The powder doesn't change the OAL of a cartridge. Which manual are you quoting that statement from?

It seems like using an OAL of 1.227" with almost any normally shaped 230 gr. round nosed bullet, lead or jacketed, is going to put the base of the bullet a little too deep into the case.

SlamFire1 · November 8, 2009, 01:22 PM

I have fired these loads in my Colt M1911 and my Kimber Custom Classic. The Chronograph data is in the Kimber.

Shoots fine, functions fine.

I have three different vintages of Bullseye with the 230 LRN.

Code:

230 gr LRN Valiant 4.5 grs Bullseye lot BE532 (80's mfgr)  Mixed Brass WLP (brass) OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469"
16-May-09  high 83  °F	 
					
Ave Vel =	782.7				
Std Dev =	13.41				
ES =	52.05				
High = 	815.5				
Low =	763.4				
N =	28				
				
					
230 gr LRN Valiant 4.5 grs Bullseye 99' & 2005 mixed lot Mixed Brass WLP (brass) OAL 1.250"  taper crimp469"
16-May-09  high 83  °F
					
Ave Vel =	805.2				
Std Dev =	38.07				
ES =	136.9				
High = 	912.4				
Low =	775.5				
N =	24			

230 gr LRN Valiant 4.5 grs Bullseye lot 827 (60's/70's powder) Mixed Brass WLP (brass) OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469"
16-May-09	 high 83  °F	
					
Ave Vel =	822.9				
Std Dev =	14.14				
ES =	55.24				
High = 	853.7				
Low =	798.4				
N =	26

Kimber Custom Classic

Colt Series 80 with Ed Brown Bushing

tac_driver · November 8, 2009, 07:51 PM

Thanks for all your help. I was crimping the rounds to .470" when I drop it to .469" I can get it out to 1.255", it is still .020" under the lyman 49th min OAL of 1.272", but falls to just under the hood of the barrel and hand cycles smooth. I will try some of these lengths at starting load and working up carefully.

I see darkgael is from Brooklyn I originally grew up in ENY and lived in Canarsie most of my life.

SlamFire1 I see you had the collet bushing and picked up the Ed Brown bushing, did you have to have it fitted? Is there a big difference in the lock-up? I have a series 70 barrel with collet bushing and the lock up is superb, but was thinking of getting a solid bushing like yours as a back up.

darkgael · November 9, 2009, 02:27 AM

Tac: Are you referring to Lyman's data for the #452374 cast bullet? I assume so as it is the only one listed with the OAL at 1.272".
That is not a minimum length. It is a maximum length.
And...not sure about the crimp to .470" and .469". Also not sure about the relation of those two numbers to the 1.255" length.
Are you measuring the diameter of the crimp? If so, save yourself the trouble and stop. Just straighten the crimp out and forget it. Remember that the important length is to the case mouth, that's where the headspace is controlled. And even there, don't bother to measure, just go shoot.
The crimp diameter as far as I know bears little or no relationship to the OAL of the cartridge. It sounds like you are making work for yourself.
It's an easy cartridge to reload. I've loaded 60K of them and have never taken the measurements to which you have referred. The ammo worked/works just fine.
Pete

PS - Get the solid bushing and keep the collet as a reserve.

tac_driver · November 9, 2009, 10:28 AM

Thanks Pete,
Does the solid bushing have to be fitted to the series 70 barrel?

darkgael · November 9, 2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Does the solid bushing have to be fitted to the series 70 barrel?

The one on my Gold Cup was. Don't know about the Ed Brown bushing. Don't see how one could avoid it though.
Pete

November 6, 2009, 11:45 PM	#2
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 665	As long as you don't go under the minumum OAL, you are fine. And as far as 225 or 230 grain....use the same load data for both. 5 grains isn't gonna make a difference, but still be sure to work the loads up and never start with max (of course you already knew this ). __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

November 6, 2009, 11:54 PM	#3
tac_driver Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 28	believe it or not the minium OAL in the Lyman 49th edition, pistol and revolver 3rd edition, and 48th edition all list 1.272" as minium. There isn't any data on the alliant website for that combination. Speer #14 says 1.270". The only one that comes close to my OAL is Hornady 7th edition. But I find there data so vague. was looking for a quickload result whit this combination at my OAL. Thanks for the reply. __________________ Two to the body one to the head. 22/45 Ruger S&W 640 Glock 21SF,S&W 67 Combat,Colt series 80 Combat,Glock 19

November 7, 2009, 07:07 AM	#5
tac_driver Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 28	These bullets have a small shoulder on them (Midstates cast 230 gr.) Using a heavier crimp, I got them out to 1.235 max now but 1.227 fit better. comes to be just flush with the hood of the barrel. At 1.245 I can get them to work in the gauge. but at that length they stick in the barrel and come to a little over the hood of the barrel. I see that the min length for Win 231, Universal, TiteGroup is 1.200" I wonder why Bullseye which is a fast Powder like TiteGroup requires a longer OAL. __________________ Two to the body one to the head. 22/45 Ruger S&W 640 Glock 21SF,S&W 67 Combat,Colt series 80 Combat,Glock 19

November 7, 2009, 03:50 PM	#6
lomaxanderson Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 259	I load lrn and fmj to OAL of 1.240...flawless in both my 3" 1911's...with bullseye and magnum primers... __________________ All I want to do is live in peace...for that I'm willing to die Mason Rhea Gsd Abby Gale Gsd

November 8, 2009, 07:51 PM	#10
tac_driver Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 28	Thanks for all your help. I was crimping the rounds to .470" when I drop it to .469" I can get it out to 1.255", it is still .020" under the lyman 49th min OAL of 1.272", but falls to just under the hood of the barrel and hand cycles smooth. I will try some of these lengths at starting load and working up carefully. I see darkgael is from Brooklyn I originally grew up in ENY and lived in Canarsie most of my life. SlamFire1 I see you had the collet bushing and picked up the Ed Brown bushing, did you have to have it fitted? Is there a big difference in the lock-up? I have a series 70 barrel with collet bushing and the lock up is superb, but was thinking of getting a solid bushing like yours as a back up. __________________ Two to the body one to the head. 22/45 Ruger S&W 640 Glock 21SF,S&W 67 Combat,Colt series 80 Combat,Glock 19

November 6, 2009, 11:29 PM	#1
tac_driver Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 28	45ACP OAL Bullseye I have the Lyman 49th edition and for a 225 LRN they are saying the OAL is 1.272" With my Colt 45Auto i need a OAL of 1.227" minium I'm trying to use a 230gr. LRN projectile with Bullseye and this OAL. 4.0Start 680f.p.s.- 5.0MAX 815f.p.s. Would like to see what "Quickload" results would be like at this OAL. So anyone with that program plese chime in. Thanks for any help you can provide. __________________ Two to the body one to the head. 22/45 Ruger S&W 640 Glock 21SF,S&W 67 Combat,Colt series 80 Combat,Glock 19

November 7, 2009, 06:08 AM	#4
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 1,988	OAL What data are you looking for? Pressure or velocity? I'm guessing that there will be little to no difference in performance between the two seating depths. Load'em so they fit in you magazines and go shoot. Owning a Colt myself, I am curious about why you need a 1.227 minimum. Most often we hear about concerns over maximum length as opposed to the minimum. Pete __________________ "Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games."

November 9, 2009, 02:27 AM	#11
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 1,988	data Tac: Are you referring to Lyman's data for the #452374 cast bullet? I assume so as it is the only one listed with the OAL at 1.272". That is not a minimum length. It is a maximum length. And...not sure about the crimp to .470" and .469". Also not sure about the relation of those two numbers to the 1.255" length. Are you measuring the diameter of the crimp? If so, save yourself the trouble and stop. Just straighten the crimp out and forget it. Remember that the important length is to the case mouth, that's where the headspace is controlled. And even there, don't bother to measure, just go shoot. The crimp diameter as far as I know bears little or no relationship to the OAL of the cartridge. It sounds like you are making work for yourself. It's an easy cartridge to reload. I've loaded 60K of them and have never taken the measurements to which you have referred. The ammo worked/works just fine. Pete PS - Get the solid bushing and keep the collet as a reserve. __________________ "Only hunting and mountain climbing are sports. The rest are just games." Last edited by darkgael; November 9, 2009 at 02:33 AM.

November 9, 2009, 10:28 AM	#12
tac_driver Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 28	Thanks Pete, Does the solid bushing have to be fitted to the series 70 barrel? __________________ Two to the body one to the head. 22/45 Ruger S&W 640 Glock 21SF,S&W 67 Combat,Colt series 80 Combat,Glock 19