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Old August 26, 2009, 09:29 PM   #26
Pbearperry
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Having shooting skills is very important.Having skills that will keep you in one piece are equally important.I can shoot the button off a mans shirt at 7 yds but I also will be looking for something big and solid to hide behind while I am doing it.Your brain is still the best defense.
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Old September 3, 2009, 02:21 PM   #27
cjw3cma
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Never stop training. Do the same training over again. Change it up a bit. Being proficient with a firearm means lots of practice in varied situations (staged for training purposes).

Personally I hardly ever just target practice. I try when I am able varied ways of drawing and firing at the target. lately I have been using props in my hands / arms (like grocery bags or shopping bags). I bring different outerwear (jackets / vests / etc. that I normally wear) to practice being able to get to my weapon. These methods have helped me find the weak points in my knowledge / training and allowed me to know better the type of situation where I become most vulnerable.
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Old September 15, 2009, 10:48 AM   #28
Phoebe
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I'm back to this question again. (And will probably keep coming back to it.)

I'm planning on taking a class in November.

Meanwhile, I'm practicing on my own.

I bought some stick-on targets that can go over my paper targets to practice accuracy.

I have not received my CCW yet, but have two concealed carry methods lined up -- Smart Carry and a Galco Underwrap. I suppose I should start practicing drawing and reholstering with those?

I'm not sure what more dry firing exercises can give me? They have helped my steadiness and accuracy. But I don't know where the next steps are there.

My off hand, plus my carry weapon are a crappy combo. I'm not sure what I can do to work on that. The recoil just slams my off hand pretty badly and at more than 3', my accuracy with my off hand is not acceptable. Any helpful hints?
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Old September 15, 2009, 12:04 PM   #29
oldkim
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Good question...

Where does one go after they feel they are pretty proficient while at a stagnet "regular" range?

You can look at going out the hills and at some pit but that can be a bit hairy at times, especially for a gal, even with a gun.

Yes, taking a self defense course is a good idea but for you in mind a pretty basic self defense course would be in order - why I say this is you can go to a very good course but from the sounds of it you'll be information overloaded the first hour. Most of these concepts and actions take practice.

The cost is the major concern. I'm sure I'm like most on here (and I have good job and no kids) and it's still tough to pay for those $300-$1000+ courses, plus all the ammo and travel.

I have been fortunate to set up a "bridge" course for $25 for those in the Seattle area where we have volunteer safety officers/instructors donate their time and take shooters like you to the next step. What is the next step? Shooting on the move.

If you've never done it before (shooting on the move) you don't really know where to start? What to practice, why, how... all the basic stuff. Unlike basic marksmanship you can't fake it through shooting on the move. You really need some guidance and direction from an instructor.

So, depending on where you live. Look me up.

"Shooting Like the Good Old Days - Shooting on the Move at Renton Fish and Game Club"

Young
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Old September 15, 2009, 12:08 PM   #30
Mello2u
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Quote:
Phoebe

I'm back to this question again. (And will probably keep coming back to it.)

I'm planning on taking a class in November.

I have not received my CCW yet, but have two concealed carry methods lined up -- Smart Carry and a Galco Underwrap. I suppose I should start practicing drawing and reholstering with those?

My off hand, plus my carry weapon are a crappy combo. I'm not sure what I can do to work on that. The recoil just slams my off hand pretty badly and at more than 3', my accuracy with my off hand is not acceptable. Any helpful hints?
What class are you taking?

As to practice, you are building muscle memory and some strength by muscle recruitment. By repetitive practice your body unconsciously learns to do the task better (assuming that you are practicing proper form).

In Morrison's book The Modern Technique of the Pistol it states about dry-fire practice: "Practice only when able to concentrate fully, and when you are physically fresh. Practicing when fatigued, or until exhausted, leads to needless errors and their compounding."
"Perfect practice makes for perfect shooting." <---- (who said that?)

You can benefit from drawing (presenting) your gun, dry firing, scanning and re-holstering while continuing scanning for threats. Under stress we tend to do what we practice. Scanning is important to keep situational awareness, to not lose sight of a threat.

Off hand shooting can be humbling. I know I don't practice enough. When I do shoot with my weak hand I'm slow and feel awkward.
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Old September 15, 2009, 12:17 PM   #31
Phoebe
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Mello, I will be taking a defensive pistol class with Corrina Coplin of Suarez Institute.

I've been reading a book called, "On Combat", and it's making me doubt myself. Or at the very least, making me realize I have a long way to go to be where I need to be.

Oldkim, I'd like to do some IDPA and USPSA soon. I am concerned about how many rounds those competitions use, and how often I could afford to go do something like that! But I think you're right -- I need to learn to shoot while moving.
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Old September 15, 2009, 12:48 PM   #32
oldkim
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rounds

The number of rounds is limited to the scenario

Roughly you shoot more during a USPSA match than an IDPA match. Figure on shooting about 3-5 boxes at most during a regular IDPA match.

It's a good way to learn. Just get there early and let the match director (MD) or a safety officer know it's your first time and they'll welcome you and take you under their "wing." You'll be amazed how we like to share our sport.

Go and take it slow and ask a lot of questions. There are a lot of good shooters out there and they're more than willing to share.

Take is slow and safe and have fun!
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Old September 15, 2009, 10:19 PM   #33
Mello2u
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You might be having mixed feelings about the upcoming course at Suarez International. It looks like an intense course for someone of your level of skill and experience. You should learn a lot and be able to build upon the instruction you receive during the two days of the course. I believe that you will do well; and maybe surprise yourself with how much you improve in shooting and confidence.

I know nothing about Suarez International. If they have a low student to instructor ratio you may learn the benefit of personal attention from a well qualified instructor.
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Old September 16, 2009, 12:22 AM   #34
ranburr
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You are taking a good course. Suarez teaches slow in the basic sourses. The more advanced courses you would be lost in because they move at a faster pace.
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Old September 16, 2009, 09:38 AM   #35
Phoebe
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It's actually Corrinne from Suarez, who would be teaching (don't recall her last name), but she is with SI.

I now have another possibility to evaluate.

But twice, I have almost spent $100+ on gun safety 101, when thinking I was going to get different info than that. I have taken a gun safety 101 course already. So, one concern (not from Suarez, but anything else), is that I don't want to spend a bunch more money on the 4 basics. I am practicing those at home every day. I don't think sitting through another class on safety would be useful, unless it's more advanced safety issues, and even then...that's not what I'm looking for. I need defensive pistol, including low light and night shooting, weapon retention, shoot/no shoot scenarios, etc, on top of work on basic shooting skills such as breath control, timing, accuracy, etc, in addition to learning at least something about point shooting.

At least this is what I think I need. I recognize I may not know enough to be asking the right questions.

But I have also noticed that nearly every defensive pistol class I see, gives little description of what is being taught.

It's very frustrating. It's either a secret, or they don't have much to say?

Also, much of what I need seems like it could be learned in places like IDPA matches.
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Old September 16, 2009, 09:59 AM   #36
Kyo
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i agree on the matches thing. learn to draw, point and shoot in a smaller amount of time as you keep going. There are a few pistol shooting instructors that are descriptive on what you learn. Roger's school of shooting is 10000 per person. I can't afford that, but I figure its the best around.
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Old September 16, 2009, 10:07 AM   #37
Phoebe
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For $10k, it better include bullet proof armor, kevlar head and body gear, and at the end, a kevlar brain implant!
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Old September 16, 2009, 10:42 AM   #38
Mello2u
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The $10,000 figure was a group price for up to 10 students.

http://www.rogersshootingschool.com/pricing.php

"We have combined our Advanced and Intermediate classes into one class. For students who attend one of our scheduled Intermediate or Advanced Classes the tuition cost for Handgun instruction is $1,000. The cost includes lunch and dinner for the five day program."
Plus ammo:
"Students will require approximately 2500 rounds of handgun ammo . . . " That is a lot of shooting in 5 days!!!
"Ammunition costs for the class: 9MM Handgun Ammo - $550, .40 S W Handgun Ammo - $665, .45ACP Handgun Ammo - $750, 12 gauge bird shot Ammo - $50, 12 gauge 00 Buck 75. Ammunition costs subject to change without notice. Students must confirm price of ammunition at registration time."

Rogers Shooting School is located in Ellijay, Georgia about 60 miles from Atlanta.
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Old September 16, 2009, 03:35 PM   #39
LeopardCurDog
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If you are close to Memphis, check out Rangemaster with Tom Givens. They have ladies classes and offer a variety of different levels. Good people.

On another note, why is tap, rack, bang outdated?
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Old September 16, 2009, 05:44 PM   #40
lawboy
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You are on the right path. I wholeheartedly agree that studying the mechanical workings of firearms is a very good way to better understand safety issues and how to resolve problems with the firearm, and how to better get the performance from the firearm that you desire. I tell people all the time to train AND study.
On the shooting while moving, are you interested in learning competition techniques or fighting techniques. They are not the same. You will need to decide what you want to learn.
I disagree with the idea that if you are shooting 5-inch groups you need to shoot faster. Shoot no faster than you can control the shot placement and shot placement is is entirely target dependent. It requires a situation-specific assessment.
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Old September 17, 2009, 12:11 AM   #41
Phoebe
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Quote:
On another note, why is tap, rack, bang outdated?
From what I've read, training, "tap, rack, bang", led to NDs because you do what you drill. So, my understanding LEOs now train, "tap, rack, ready."

Note: I have no first hand knowledge of this nor do I know if it's true. I'm just reporting what I've read.
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