cz-52

Wrothgar · September 12, 2009, 11:46 PM

These seem to appeal to me more than a TT-33, yet I cannot find any of them anywhere right now. Any suggestions? I don't like auction sites, I'm looking for something like an Aim surplus or a J&G sales that I can use my C&R with.

BobbyT · September 13, 2009, 05:17 AM

I checked the 8 or 10 big C&R names and none of them have them at the moment. You're either waiting for the next round of imports to ship, or buying from a private party.

I overpaid for mine about a month ago on Gun Broker, and seeing what guys were paying just a year ago (much less 5-6) makes me cringe, but then again it's still a pretty good deal for a solid pistol with a nice finish and dirt cheap ammo.

FWIW, the CZ also appealed to me more than the TT before I got them. My TTC showed up smaller, lighter, and with a dramatically better trigger feel. I still expected the CZ to be the better shooter, but I was much more consistent with the TTC. I just wish it came apart as easily as the CZ.

Wrothgar · September 13, 2009, 09:25 AM

what's the dif beteween a tt33 and a ttc?

BobbyT · September 13, 2009, 01:46 PM

Country of origin. TT-33 is the Russian model, and 7 or 8 other countries also made variants (off the top of my head, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Yugoslavia, China, Egypt...).

But you aren't likely to find ones from most of them. At this point it'll probably be Romanian or perhaps Polish. Mine is the former, and I've heard good things about the latter. "TTC" is the Romanian model.

The Chinese knockoff is a 9mm.

Tamara · September 13, 2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrothgar

what's the dif beteween a tt33 and a ttc?

TTC = TT Cugir. Made in Romania.

I have an early Radom-marked wz.48 (Polish TT-33); lovely pistol, and noticeably better-finished than later "Circle 11"-marked guns.

Wrothgar · September 13, 2009, 10:55 PM

Whelp, I guess I'll just have to wait for the CZ-52s.

CGSteve8718 · September 14, 2009, 12:10 AM

The Chinese copied the Tokarev both militarily and commercially. The commercial models don't just come in 9mm, but also in the original 7.62x25. However, I do believe that the Chinese used military parts to make many of these pistols to export here.

Their military version is called the Type 54, and they also produced the exact weapon but designated as the M20. These were for export to foreign militaries as clandestine aid. I have a Vietnam bringback M20, no markings that would indicate it is of Chinese manufacture.

I also own the cz 52 and must say the TT feels much better to me. I actually enjoy shooting the TT versus the cz 52. I feel I overpaid for mine a few years ago at $180 (IIRC).

Going back to the Tokarevs, you should know that as with other military firearms, there is a premium for bringback originals, and the later boogered ones for import. All of the recently imported stuff with the added compliance safety will be far less than if you can find any variation in original condition. It is not uncommon to see an original Russian Tokarev go for $600 + on the collector market. Also, don't discount the Chinese "knockoffs", as they are good shooters and still can be found for about the same price the Romanian or the Polish would go for depending on the variation (the Chinese had a lot of different commercial models, one which is even high capacity).

raftman · September 14, 2009, 12:18 AM

Plus the TT pistols, though not gorgeous, are by far nicer-looking than the CZ-52's.

Tamara · September 14, 2009, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raftman

Plus the TT pistols, though not gorgeous, are by far nicer-looking than the CZ-52's.

That's awful subjective. Personally, I think that the CZ-52 has a certain World-Of-Tomorrow, '50s-esque, "Raygun Gothic" look to it, while the TT looks like a cave painting done by a neolithic hunter hoping for success on his next stalk of a Colt Pocket Hammerless.

jsmaye · September 14, 2009, 07:48 AM

I've always thought the TT-33 looked like a typical ham-handed chiseled-in-stone Communist copy of a graceful American original 1911. Not that still I don't want one - looks are far down the list of important considerations.

Claude Clay · September 14, 2009, 09:11 AM

the -52 handles the hotter SMG ammo. mine, 5 years ago was $100 and arrived with accessories: a 9mm bbl, 600 starline cases and dies, 3 magazines and a holster.

beware that the decocker on these guns may--and does--act like a trigger sometimes. only engage it when pointed downrange. or just do no use it. i have not heard of any problems with the safety setting.

raftman · September 14, 2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

That's awful subjective.

Nah, when I say it, it's objective, and an absolute fact.

I think the CZ-52 looks more like the stereotypical "commie gun" than the TT. Then again, what's Raygun Gothic to some, is "bad sci-fi b-movie prop" to others.

CGSteve8718 · September 14, 2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claude Clay

the -52 handles the hotter SMG ammo. mine, 5 years ago was $100 and arrived with accessories: a 9mm bbl, 600 starline cases and dies, 3 magazines and a holster.

beware that the decocker on these guns may--and does--act like a trigger sometimes. only engage it when pointed downrange. or just do no use it. i have not heard of any problems with the safety setting.

You know, I've read on numerous forums and articles written about the cz 52 that this is the case, but then on another forum that I frequent too much, a poster came along and said the two pistols have at the very least parity when it comes to handling hot ammunition, or the TT is even more stout than the cz 52.

This is of course that poster's testimony (but then again so is all the talk of the cz), but he stated he put the TT to serious range use and found the TT handles any ammo just as well as the TT, and that all the hype over the cz's extra strength is through many views about a seemingly overly complex system for a handgun through no personal testing.

So, I'm going to stop spouting that same info to anyone with questions about the cz 52 until I purchase another TT and put it through its paces.

raftman · September 14, 2009, 06:44 PM

That whole hot ammo thing is pretty strange, when people compare the CZ to the TT. I've heard some conclude that there is no "extra-hot SMG ammo" and that the same ammo was used in both the pistols and submachineguns, which makes more sense anyways, if you think about it.

There was a Czech load that was a bit higher pressure than the typical Soviet one, but it's not at all common, and pretty unlikely you'll ever find it. Everything you'll ever be likely to find in 7.62x25 will probably be safe in either gun.

September 12, 2009, 11:46 PM	#1
Wrothgar Junior member Join Date: January 28, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 778	cz-52 These seem to appeal to me more than a TT-33, yet I cannot find any of them anywhere right now. Any suggestions? I don't like auction sites, I'm looking for something like an Aim surplus or a J&G sales that I can use my C&R with.

September 14, 2009, 12:10 AM	#7
CGSteve8718 Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2007 Posts: 798	The Chinese copied the Tokarev both militarily and commercially. The commercial models don't just come in 9mm, but also in the original 7.62x25. However, I do believe that the Chinese used military parts to make many of these pistols to export here. Their military version is called the Type 54, and they also produced the exact weapon but designated as the M20. These were for export to foreign militaries as clandestine aid. I have a Vietnam bringback M20, no markings that would indicate it is of Chinese manufacture. I also own the cz 52 and must say the TT feels much better to me. I actually enjoy shooting the TT versus the cz 52. I feel I overpaid for mine a few years ago at $180 (IIRC). Going back to the Tokarevs, you should know that as with other military firearms, there is a premium for bringback originals, and the later boogered ones for import. All of the recently imported stuff with the added compliance safety will be far less than if you can find any variation in original condition. It is not uncommon to see an original Russian Tokarev go for $600 + on the collector market. Also, don't discount the Chinese "knockoffs", as they are good shooters and still can be found for about the same price the Romanian or the Polish would go for depending on the variation (the Chinese had a lot of different commercial models, one which is even high capacity). __________________ "You are fighting for what you can never obtain, and we defending what we mean never to part with." Thomas Paine

September 14, 2009, 07:48 AM	#10
jsmaye Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Location: Amarillo, Tx Posts: 616	I've always thought the TT-33 looked like a typical ham-handed chiseled-in-stone Communist copy of a graceful American original 1911. Not that still I don't want one - looks are far down the list of important considerations. __________________ No matter how big and tough you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone you'll answer it.

September 14, 2009, 09:11 AM	#11
Claude Clay Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2007 Location: CT Posts: 325	the -52 handles the hotter SMG ammo. mine, 5 years ago was $100 and arrived with accessories: a 9mm bbl, 600 starline cases and dies, 3 magazines and a holster. beware that the decocker on these guns may--and does--act like a trigger sometimes. only engage it when pointed downrange. or just do no use it. i have not heard of any problems with the safety setting. __________________ NRA Instructor -- NRA Basic Pistol & Re-Loading Make a fire for a man and you warm him for the night Light him on fire and you warm him for the rest of his life

September 13, 2009, 05:17 AM	#2
BobbyT Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Posts: 266	I checked the 8 or 10 big C&R names and none of them have them at the moment. You're either waiting for the next round of imports to ship, or buying from a private party. I overpaid for mine about a month ago on Gun Broker, and seeing what guys were paying just a year ago (much less 5-6) makes me cringe, but then again it's still a pretty good deal for a solid pistol with a nice finish and dirt cheap ammo. FWIW, the CZ also appealed to me more than the TT before I got them. My TTC showed up smaller, lighter, and with a dramatically better trigger feel. I still expected the CZ to be the better shooter, but I was much more consistent with the TTC. I just wish it came apart as easily as the CZ.

September 13, 2009, 09:25 AM	#3
Wrothgar Junior member Join Date: January 28, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 778	what's the dif beteween a tt33 and a ttc?

September 13, 2009, 01:46 PM	#4
BobbyT Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Posts: 266	Country of origin. TT-33 is the Russian model, and 7 or 8 other countries also made variants (off the top of my head, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Yugoslavia, China, Egypt...). But you aren't likely to find ones from most of them. At this point it'll probably be Romanian or perhaps Polish. Mine is the former, and I've heard good things about the latter. "TTC" is the Romanian model. The Chinese knockoff is a 9mm.

September 13, 2009, 10:55 PM	#6
Wrothgar Junior member Join Date: January 28, 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 778	Whelp, I guess I'll just have to wait for the CZ-52s.

September 14, 2009, 12:18 AM	#8
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	Plus the TT pistols, though not gorgeous, are by far nicer-looking than the CZ-52's.

September 14, 2009, 06:44 PM	#14
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	That whole hot ammo thing is pretty strange, when people compare the CZ to the TT. I've heard some conclude that there is no "extra-hot SMG ammo" and that the same ammo was used in both the pistols and submachineguns, which makes more sense anyways, if you think about it. There was a Czech load that was a bit higher pressure than the typical Soviet one, but it's not at all common, and pretty unlikely you'll ever find it. Everything you'll ever be likely to find in 7.62x25 will probably be safe in either gun.