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Old July 27, 2009, 09:16 AM   #1
Ricebrnr
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Visiting NJ question help?

Hi all, I've reviewed NJ's firearms laws and I am confused. I am visiting from Michigan in August and wanted to see if I could bring my pistol.

We're driving from MI to NJ to visit family in NYC. We'll be camping and such along the way to and/or from (in PA most likely) as well as making a stop in OH. So I'd like to have my pistol for the 3 other states where I’M ALLOWED to have it the other 6-7 days ...

I have a concealed pistol license in MI and understand that I will NOT be able to carry in NJ BUT from reading the NJ laws I thought I would at least be able to have it in the hotel at night. I don't plan on having it driving around except coming in and going home. I know some won’t agree with the leaving it in the hotel, but the places we stay usually have an in room safe AND I can disassemble and lock the frame to something with a cable.

I’ve since learned that will not be the case as I am not a NJ resident AND don’t have/can’t get your version of Illinois FOID card. Not to mention NJ’s draconian transport laws. As a former New York City resident, they have it marginally better but are still light years behind others.

Can anyone straighten me out and show me to the pertinent regulations?

Yes or no.
Can I legally transport my pistol into NJ and keep it in my room for the 3-4 days I’ll be there?

Thanks
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Old July 27, 2009, 10:37 AM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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If your hotel is in NJ then NJ is probably considered your "final destination", as such, you can NOT have your handgun with you. Also, you can not under ANY circumstances, take the gun into NY with you, except under the same federal law allowing for transport if NY is NOT your final destination. So, either way, NY or NJ, your final destination is NOT a place you are allowed to possess the gun.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 27, 2009 at 10:45 AM.
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Old July 27, 2009, 12:46 PM   #3
CatskillDraht
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Im with Peete on this one. I have a NY permit, and my brother lives just over the border in NJ. I never bring firearms into NJ. I won't even take a 22 down to target shoot at his place.
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Old July 27, 2009, 03:56 PM   #4
NJgunowner
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So much bad information.

Yes, you can bring your firearm to NJ as long as you follow the guidelines I link. On that site you can find just about any info on NJ firearm laws you care to know about.

NJ does NOT prevent someone from bring a firearm (NO ASSAULT TYPE WEAPONS) that was legally obtained ANYWHERE in the U.S. into the state. However, be aware that 95% of the cops in this state have no idea about half the rules involved and will probably arrest you anyway

http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_trans.html

All firearms transported into the State of New Jersey:

*

Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.
*

The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

For additional exemptions refer to Chapter 39, namely 2C:39-6g.
All firearms transported through the State of New Jersey:

The following guidelines are provided in order to assist law enforcement officers in applying New Jersey's firearms laws to persons who are transporting firearms through the State of New Jersey.

1.

New Jersey laws governing firearms permits, purchaser identification cards, registration and licenses do not apply to a person who is transporting the firearm through this State if that person is transporting the firearm in a manner permitted by federal law, 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.
2.

This federal law permitting interstate transportation of a firearm applies only if all of the following requirements are met:

A.


The person's possession of the firearm was lawful in the state in which the journey began;

B.


The person's possession of the firearm will be lawful in the state in which the journey will end;

C.


The person is transporting the firearm for lawful purpose

D.


The firearm is unloaded

E.


The firearm is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle

F.


The ammunition is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle

G.


If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console;

H.


The person is not




1.


a convicted felon

2.


a fugitive from justice an addict or unlawful user of drugs, or

3.


an illegal alien

I


The person has not




1.


been adjudicated to be a mental defective

2.


been committed to a mental institution

3.


been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces, or

4.


renounced his United States Citizenship

3.

A person who is transporting a firearm though the State of New Jersey in the manner permitted by person's possession 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, see Section II above, need not give notice.
4.

Procedures for Investigation of Conduct Involving the Possession or Transportation of Firearms

A.


An officer who reasonably suspects that a person is transporting a firearm in violation of New Jersey law should make reasonable inquiries in order to confirm or dispel that suspicion.

B.


In a case where circumstances reasonably indicate that the person's possession and transportation of the firearms my be permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, the officer should make reasonable inquiries in order to determine whether the person's possession is permitted by that federal law.

C.


If reasonable inquiries lead an officer to conclude that the person's possession is lawful under either New Jersey law or 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, as described above in Section II, the officer should promptly allow the person to proceed.

D.


Whenever an officer has probable cause to believe that a person's possession of a firearm is in violation of New Jersey law and not permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, as described above in Section II, then the officer should make an arrest.

Pretty sure NY has similar guidelines. It is unlawful in this country to prevent legal gun owners from transporting firearms. Also as a "vacationer" you could argue that HOME is your final destination since you aren't moving (aka living) in the state.
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Old July 27, 2009, 04:16 PM   #5
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
So much bad information.
Where's the bad information?
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Old July 27, 2009, 04:46 PM   #6
MLeake
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PK...

... I think by "bad information" he refers to the blanket statements that you can't take a gun, period. As a practical matter, it might be accurate to say NJ makes it such a pain that you might not want to bother, but as NJgunowner has pasted the applicable law, which deals with both "into" and "through" NJ, it would appear that it can actually be legally done.

But that "into" section didn't say anything about taking it out of the locked container in the trunk... guess more lookups might be in order. Maybe even though that first part says, "into," it really means "through" as well. So maybe the blanket statements that you can't take a gun into NJ for a visit are correct.

Good lookup project for the OP. NJgunowner's provided a starting point for your research.

Separate note: If I remember correctly, one cannot sell or purchase HP ammo in NJ. Is possession and use of HP also illegal? (have some family in NJ, so I looked this up some time back; decided not to bother, and no longer remember what the rules were)
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Old July 27, 2009, 06:43 PM   #7
maestro pistolero
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Quote:
We're driving from MI to NJ to visit family in NYC.
If by NYC, you mean New York City, then your problem is not new Jersey, but New York. You may not possess a pistol in any condition, no matter how you transport it in the state of New York without a New York state pistol permit, and they won't issue you one as an out of stater.

The only exception is if you are driving straight through from a place that you may legally possess it, TO a place that you may legally possess it, with no unnecessary stops. Even then, if caught, you will be arrested for a felony, and given the opportunity later to prove your innocence.
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Old July 27, 2009, 07:28 PM   #8
Ricebrnr
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No as a former NYC resident I am well aware of the prohibitions there.

As stated I will be staying in NJ. Visiting NYC most likely daily for 3-4 days. The pistol IF allowed will remain in the NJ hotel room (in the safe or dissasembled and cabled to something solid.

Thank you NJ gunowner. I saw what you posted as well and had hope that i wouldn't have to leave my pistol home. BUT as with the other posts, I seem to be getting conflicting opinions. Hence my confusion and request for citations.
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Old July 27, 2009, 07:37 PM   #9
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
But that "into" section didn't say anything about taking it out of the locked container in the trunk... guess more lookups might be in order. Maybe even though that first part says, "into," it really means "through" as well. So maybe the blanket statements that you can't take a gun into NJ for a visit are correct.
Notice that the "into" contains almost identical wording to the federal transport law? The "into" also says "and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances."

In other words, it's essentially a duplicate of the federal law and applies only to a person who is going directly to or from a shooting range or a hunting area and has a valid hunting license.

Since this is NOT the case with the OP then my statement stands:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peetzakill
Also, you can not under ANY circumstances, take the gun into NY with you, except under the same federal law allowing for transport if NY is NOT your final destination. So, either way, NY or NJ, your final destination is NOT a place you are allowed to possess the gun.
It is NOT legal for the OP to take the gun to NJ and simply keep it in the hotel.

Possession

It is unlawful to knowingly possess any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a Permit to Carry, and it is unlawful to knowingly possess any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card (FID), however, no Permit to Carry or FID is required:
To keep or carry any firearm about a person’s place of business, residence, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him; a place of business shall be deemed a fixed location.
To carry any firearm unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported and the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, from one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair.
To transport such firearms as necessary for target practice, in the manner described in paragraph 2 above, by a member of a gun club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice in going to or from a place of target practice, provided the club has filed a copy of its charter with the Superintendent of State Police and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent.
To transport any firearm, in the manner described in paragraph 2 above, while traveling:

a. Directly to or from any place for the purpose of hunting or fishing, provided such person has in his possession a valid hunting or fishing license.

b. Directly to or from any target range or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions.

c. Directly to or from any exhibition or display of firearms which is sponsored by any law enforcement agency, any gun club or gun collectors club for the purpose of displaying the firearms to the public or to members of such organization or club, provided that not less than 30 days prior to such exhibition or display notice shall be given to the Superintendent of State Police by the sponsoring organization or club and the sponsor has complied with such reasonable safety regulations as the superintendent may promulgate.
To carry a firearm in the woods or fields or upon the waters of this State for the purpose of hunting, target practice, or fishing, provided that the firearm is legal and appropriate for hunting or fishing purposes in this State and the person possesses a valid hunting license, or, with respect to fresh water fishing, a valid fishing license.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 27, 2009 at 07:43 PM.
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Old July 28, 2009, 08:21 PM   #10
NJgunowner
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I'd still have to dispute that. When I moved to this state I brought a 20 guage shotgun and .22. My parents checked with the local police and they said as long as it was purchased legally in our home state then no FID or Pistol permit was required.

I know several policemen, I usually hang out with a few of them on the weekends. I'll ask them and see what they say.
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Old July 28, 2009, 08:30 PM   #11
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
I'd still have to dispute that. When I moved to this state I brought a 20 guage shotgun and .22.
...however, no Permit to Carry or FID is required:
To keep or carry any firearm about a person’s place of business, residence, premises, or other land owned or possessed by him; a place of business shall be deemed a fixed location.
To carry any firearm unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported and the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances from any place of purchase to his residence or place of business, between his dwelling and his place of business, from one place of business or residence and another when moving, or between his dwelling or place of business and place where such firearms are repaired, for the purpose of repair.
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Old July 29, 2009, 08:21 AM   #12
NJgunowner
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Technically a hotel room is a place of residence for as long as you inhabit it. I don't think the original poster ever asked what he'd need to do to conceal carry in this state.
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Old July 29, 2009, 09:34 AM   #13
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Technically a hotel room is a place of residence for as long as you inhabit it.
Show me the definition of residence that includes a hotel room under NJ Code 2C:39 an I will concede the point.
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Old August 18, 2009, 08:18 PM   #14
ndbbm
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Do exactly as NJgunowner posted and you won't have a problem. I would suggest you keep it in a trunk or rear cargo area broken down with the ammo seperate. You shouldn't have any problems. ANyway why would you want to come to this state, it sucks and we charge you to leave!
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Old August 18, 2009, 08:29 PM   #15
mouse07410
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If you are moving to NJ - there are ways to bring your firearms with you. If you're transiting through NJ - there are ways to have your firearms in the car (locked in the trunk etc).

However if you are visiting somebody in NJ - in other words NJ is your destination on this trip - I see no way for you to legally bring your firearms with you, carry or not - unless you have NJ documents such as Firearms Owner ID (which you can't get unless you're a NJ resident - and that doesn't include a temporary NJ hotel resident ).

In my opinion - if you (not being a NJ rsident and not having the right NJ papers) bring guns to NJ and get caught, you'd be royally screwed. Of course there's always a chance not to be caught. You pays your money and you makes your choice.
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Old August 18, 2009, 10:50 PM   #16
jg0001
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As a NJ resident who has read over the NJ laws (same ones posted above) numerous times, I can't see any way you could come in and do much more than stop for gas in the state of NJ on your way back out of NJ -- with the exception of coming to NJ to use a range right then and there. I have some PA relatives and have expressly told them never to bring guns or ammo into NJ.

IMO, the rules read such that even I as a NJ FPID (firearms purchaser ID) card holder couldn't stop for a LUNCH break (with guns locked in the trunk) on the way back from the range to my own HOUSE (in NJ) -- see all the "directly to and from" language used above. I'm sure you could try and argue it was a 'reasonable' deviation, but I wouldn't want to bother... the NJ police would lock you up first and ask questions later. The rules in NJ are basically written to say that anything gun related is illegal 'unless' you have a NJ FPID card.

Also, in NJ, you must be an FPID card holder just to BUY ammunition (other than that expressly bought and used at a range immediately). I believe it is also required now to POSSESS ammunition. Hollowpoints are another questionmark for many in NJ... as an FPID card holder, I can have them at home, I can practice with them at a range, but other than that, they are like hot potatoes.

As far as NYC... forget it! NYC may as well be communist China when it comes to guns. Mayor Bloomberg is the poster child of anti-gun mayors.

[BTW, it took 4.5 months to get my FPID card... legally the state has to give it in like 1-2 months, but that never happens. I don't think an out of state person has much chance of getting one.]
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