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Old July 28, 2009, 12:00 PM   #1
Spade Cooley
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Why threads are closed?

I've seen a number of hot topics on this board that have been closed. Why are they closed? We are free thinking adults and all of us understand that there are a few idiots who hang out here as well as people with differing opinions on scenarios. In most cases there is no right answer, just a bunch of speculation. We must make up our own mind what we would do in a given situation. I read some post and consider them crazy but they are good reading for entertainment. Other posts make more sense. Some posts are from professionals in the field that we need to weigh in on.

I was recently chewed out because I said if it was between me and the bad guy in a shoot out and I won, I might lie on certain details to save my skin. I would and believe most of us would in order to save our skin as well as our family from a fat law suit. I'm not saying my advice is for everyone. I'm having a little trouble understanding the thinking of our Board Tsar in closing certain topics. Please explain.

For instance the topic where the police enter your home by mistake. By law the police are to give a knock and notice of the entry. This didn't get to be discussed because the topic was closed.
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Old July 28, 2009, 12:16 PM   #2
hogdogs
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Lying to save yer hide is professing illegal activity as acceptable...
that is one thing that will get a thread closed and often gets the poster banned.
Threads running in circles, folks going to verbal (typed) character attacks is another.
THan there are the whacked out scenarios of unrealistic nature... (but the week before halloween and on April fools day we do get a little reprieve, even zombie thread or 2 will be allowed to run...
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Old July 28, 2009, 12:34 PM   #3
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Stating in a public forum that you would commit perjury is not the smartest thing to do. In a good shoot you would not have to lie to protect your skin. Just hire a good lawyer.

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Old July 28, 2009, 01:07 PM   #4
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All the closed threads I have read have the reason the staff closed them. Just look at the last post of the closed item. Also, I have to admit, the reasoning in closing the post seem pretty clear-cut.
Have not seen one post yet that was closed with the excuse: "I feel like closing this post and I am not giving anyone any reason. Ha Ha"
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Old July 28, 2009, 01:15 PM   #5
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
I was recently chewed out because I said if it was between me and the bad guy in a shoot out and I won, I might lie on certain details to save my skin. I would and believe most of us would in order to save our skin as well as our family from a fat law suit. I'm not saying my advice is for everyone. I'm having a little trouble understanding the thinking of our Board Tsar in closing certain topics. Please explain.

Explain?
This board was created by, is maintained by and is "populated" by rules-following, law-abiding people who pride themselves on maintaining and promoting the moral "High Ground".

Lying is NOT moral high ground.
Lying about the circumstances of a shooting, defensive or otherwise, is not only not maintaining the moral high ground but is also offensive to those of us who take not just firearms, but the basic principles of law and order seriously.
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Old July 28, 2009, 01:20 PM   #6
Hornett
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Quote:
I read some post and consider them crazy but they are good reading for entertainment. Other posts make more sense.
Consider this when you read old closed posts.
The moderators will delete offensive posts and send the poster a written warning.
When you go back after the fact you have no idea how bad it really was.

I believe that this board is as civil and informative as it is as a direct result of the moderators efforts (who are very informed and experienced in their own right BTW).

I started the Police Mistaken thread and did not have a problem with it being closed.
The question had been answered and people were starting to take sides.
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Old July 28, 2009, 01:23 PM   #7
wickedrider
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+1 Peetzakilla. In addition, if this board and forum allowed activity that is not even marginally legal to be espoused, then this board and forum would become known as one that promoted and supported criminal activity. Obviously, the VPC and other organizations would use this as a further excuse to extinguish 2A rights.

Last edited by wickedrider; July 28, 2009 at 03:30 PM.
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Old July 28, 2009, 01:34 PM   #8
goldfacade
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Calling out the MODs without the courtesy of a PM may not be the best show of respect. If I were you I would send him/her a little note apologizing about this thread, THEN make any suggestions/corrections about other threads.

Good luck, and remember the flys and honey anology.

Last edited by goldfacade; July 28, 2009 at 01:35 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old July 28, 2009, 03:01 PM   #9
Spade Cooley
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I understand the need for us to obey laws and I in no way intend or promote anyone breaking the law. I just expressed an opinion of what I would do in a given situation. I believe in rules. Bashing others on the board should not be done. I just expressed an opinion on a tactical situation. I thought I could do that.

Let me modify my previous advice about lying about an incident to telling you to keep your mouth shut until you speak to your attorney if you are in the wrong. They are better at making up stories than we are.
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Old July 28, 2009, 03:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
They are better at making up stories than we are.
Lawyers do not, as a rule, perjure themselves. They provide interpretations and scenarios.

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Old July 28, 2009, 03:26 PM   #11
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade Cooley
I understand the need for us to obey laws and I in no way intend or promote anyone breaking the law. I just expressed an opinion of what I would do in a given situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade Cooley
I was recently chewed out because I said if it was between me and the bad guy in a shoot out and I won, I might lie on certain details to save my skin.

Uhh....

you do realize that lying to police regarding a shooting would be illegal.... right?
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 28, 2009 at 03:35 PM.
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Old July 28, 2009, 03:32 PM   #12
Ian0351
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I think this thread belongs somewhere other than T&T... general discussion maybe? or a PM to a moderator?

There are other forums out there that do not have the same high standards... you are free to peruse them if you choose. Also, this topic has been thoroughly discussed here before, and locked (funny enough) so you could have searched for it and gotten a good answer to your question.
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Old July 28, 2009, 03:51 PM   #13
pax
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As a general rule, it is unacceptable to "call the moderators out" in public like this. The courteous thing to do is to drop a note via PM to the moderator that closed a thread asking for an explanation and making your case for your thread not being closed.

In the specific case of the "I intend to perjure myself" post, your post was closed for three reasons:

1) to save your butt, and
2) to save MY butt, and
3) to save TFL's butt.

Frankly I don't care all that much about your butt, but occasionally people post things that they later come to regret. A good moderator helps keep them from making a habit of it. But hey, you're an adult and it's your butt.

But when it comes to my personal butt, I do care. If you use a site to promote, encourage, admit, advertise your intent to violate the law, it would not be much of a stretch to land the moderators or other forum leaders in court on some sort of BS conspiracy charge. On a personal level, I'm not really up to putting my butt on the line for internet strangers, so I don't allow discussion of intentional illegal activity in "my" area of the forum -- nor does any other moderator with a lick of sense.

The third reason is the kicker. When you signed up on TFL, you agreed to follow a certain set of rules, and you indicated that you understood TFL's mission. Here's the TFL mission statement:

Quote:
Welcome to The Firing Line, a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership.
Admitting and promoting illegal activity is not within the keeping of our mission statement of promoting responsible firearms ownership. If we allow it, our mission changes and the flavor the board changes. So when I as moderator choose to shut down a discussion of illegal activity and damnably BAD advice, I am preserving the nature and mission of TFL as I agreed to do on the day Rich Lucibella chose to trust me with the moderator keys.

Further, when you signed on the dotted line as a member, you indicated that you understood that I would need to make such calls from time to time:

Quote:
5) As we can never convey a philosophy through a few rules, we reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to edit or delete posts and/or to revoke Membership. No Second Chances; No Argument; No Trial; No Way. At best you will receive one warning.
I think the original question has been adequately addressed by the other posters, but am moving this down to the proper forum before closing it. (Firmly resisting the temptation to add, "I feel like closing this post and I am not giving anyone any reason. Ha Ha" -- thanks Uncle Buck!)

It is being closed because it is against TFL policy to allow calling-out-the-moderator threads to continue in public. I am deliberately violating policy (Rule 5) by leaving it visible so that there is no doubt about who did it or why it was done.

Despite the closure, I'm inviting other staff people to weigh in on this, and hope they do.

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Last edited by pax; July 28, 2009 at 04:04 PM.
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Old July 28, 2009, 05:54 PM   #14
Shane Tuttle
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There's no possible way I can elaborate on what pax has stated. I'm in full support of furthering Rich's vision here. If I wasn't I don't think I have any business being a Staff member here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade Cooley
I read some post and consider them crazy but they are good reading for entertainment.
The purpose of this board is futher responsible gunownership through thoughtful, coherent discussion. The content isn't focused for entertainment. There's a difference discussions that happen to be entertaining and discussions focused on something low-brow in order to gain audience.
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Old August 6, 2009, 03:19 PM   #15
Johnny Guest
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VERY well answered, pax

There's really no way to improve on what Ms. pax wrote. By way of a minor expansion, though, I'd like to add an observation.

During a lengthy peace officer career, I unavoidably spent a LOT of time in court. I have a passing acquaintance with court procedure and the rules of evidence in Texas courts. They vary a bit from state to state but from what I understand, they're quite similar.

If a person, especially one accused of wrongdoing in a "shots fired" situation, gets on the witness stand, their background is pretty much an open book. If it is discovered that such a person has previously proclaimed that he'd lie during a criminal investigation, then any record of such ill-advised declaration is admissible to impeach the credibility of his testimony.

It's no stretch to envision that a person's computer would be seized as evidence. Once examined, it is pretty easy to find the sites where that person has spent a lot of time. The "cookies" are there, as are all the passwords and user names ever registered by said person. Anyone here has enough imagination to figure what's going to happen in court. One example:
Lawyer: So, Mr. WHOMEVER, you admit that you go by USERNAME on The Firing Line forums?

Mr. WHOMEVER: Yes.

Lawyer: And on DATE AND TIME, did you write this about, 'I might lie on certain details to save my skin"?

Mr. WHOMEVER: Well, what I meant was . . .

Lawyer: Just "yes" or "no," please.

Mr. WHOMEVER: Well, yes, I wrote that . . . .

Lawyer: So, isn't it fair to ask you, were you lying when you wrote that, or are you lying here today
?
It's uncomfortable for any TFL staffer to imagine that our archives might be subpoenaed into a criminal proceeding. The prized anonymity of the internet is really nonexistant in the face of a court order.
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Old August 7, 2009, 06:33 AM   #16
tyme
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Quote:
if it was between me and the bad guy in a shoot out and I won, I might lie on certain details to save my skin. I would and believe most of us would in order to save our skin as well as our family from a fat law suit. I'm not saying my advice is for everyone. I'm having a little trouble understanding the thinking of our Board Tsar in closing certain topics. Please explain.
Brilliant idea. Neither an investigating police officer, nor a jury, nor a prosecutor, nor opposing counsel in a lawsuit, would ever consider the possibility that you could be lying to save your skin. Your charade would be a complete success.

You have a much better chance staying out of prison if you shut your mouth.
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