The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 15, 2009, 07:56 AM   #26
Uncle Billy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 10, 2009
Location: Small city in New York
Posts: 482
The export provisions probably do apply to guns, but only those that will be left outside the US- sold, transferred, traded or whatever- and not brought back to the US. I believe the rules for "export" and "import" are much more stringent in the context of taking stuff across a border on a one-way trip. Sporting and target guns brought into Canada for one's use, then taken out of Canada after one bags his moose or bear or whatever aren't permanently "imported", they are in Canada temporarily and therein lies the difference. I also think there's a difference in the way some issues are handled between our border with Canada and our border with Mexico because there are differences (I suspect) between our trade relations with those nations which depends on their internal laws.

Here's the link I posted in my original post on this issue:

Royal Canadian Mounted Police: "Firearm Users Visiting Canada"

It leads to a website maintained by the Canadian federal police and relates all the rules that apply to bringing guns into Canada, for one's use and to leave there.
__________________
Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how popular it remains?
Uncle Billy is offline  
Old July 15, 2009, 09:40 AM   #27
Bayou Rifle
Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 44
Nope, its an export even if it just leaves the U.S. for a minute. The Canadian requirements have to do with their import policies, not the U.S. export regulations.

The Commerce Dept. and State Department regulations even cover movement through one country on the way to another. And sending parts for firearms requires a license as well. These are defined as "defense articles" under the International Traffic in Arms Regulations ("ITAR"). Any movement out of the U.S. is an export, either a permanent export or a temporary export and if it is a defense article it requires a license from the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls which requires that you be registered first with the DDTC. A shotgun with a barrel over 18" is specifically exempted. Nigh vision and "military" rifle scopes are regulated as well. Cabelas paid a $680,000 fine for exporting those without a license.
http://www.exportlawblog.com/archives/425
Bayou Rifle is offline  
Old July 15, 2009, 09:51 AM   #28
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,537
Cabelas was exporting guns for purpose of selling them. The article I cited, from the Department of Commerce, specifically says that firearms taken to Canada are exempt.

Direct Quote:

"Under the provisions of the Arms Export Control Act of 1976, an export license must be obtained from ODTC before exporting a rifle or a handgun anywhere other than to Canada."
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 15, 2009 at 10:00 AM.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old July 15, 2009, 03:10 PM   #29
Bayou Rifle
Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 44
http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/DTRADE/documents/Oas.pdf
Bayou Rifle is offline  
Old July 15, 2009, 03:20 PM   #30
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,537
Yep, and from page 8 of your linked PDF:


A. LICENSING EXEMPTIONS:

"123. 17(c) Temporary export of firearms and ammunition for personal use -
U.S. persons may export temporarily not more than three non-automatic firearms
and not more than 1,000 cartridges of ammunition provided that this is for the
person's exclusive use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership (i.e.,firearms for use on hunting trips)."
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old July 15, 2009, 03:31 PM   #31
Uncle Billy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 10, 2009
Location: Small city in New York
Posts: 482
PeetzaKiller beat me to it! But here it is anyway:

The exportation of shotguns from the US is handled by regulations of the US Department of Commerce; the exportation of rifles and handguns by the Department of State. Nonetheless, the regs are very similar.

From US Department of Commerce Export Administration Regulations, Part 740: License Exceptions, Section 740.14 (page 33 of the Regulation): "Baggage"

Shotguns and shotgun shells: No export or reexport license is required for shotguns, provided that:
1) No more than 3 be taken on one trip.
2) Their barrel length is 18" or greater
3) They leave the US with the person's baggage, accompanied or not
4) The shotguns are for the person's exclusive use and not for resale or other transfer of ownership
5) All shotguns and unused shells must be returned to the US

Before leaving the US, the traveller ought to stop at US customs and obtain documentation of the guns and ammo he's taking out of the country so that reentry with them has some official paperwork for support.

From the US Department of State, Directorate of Defense Trade Controls, Part 121.1 Category I "The US Munitions List, Firearms, Close Assault Weapons and Combat Shotguns" and Part 123.17c "Licenses for the Export of Defense Articles, Exports of Firearms and Ammunition"

A US citizen may temporarily export and reexport, without a license, up to 3 non-automatic firearms as defined in Category I(a) of 121.1 and no more than 1000 cartridges (this quantity also applies to shotguns) therefore, without a license, provided that:
1) A declaration is made to a customs officer and an examination is made as the person leaves the US.
2) The guns and ammo are with the person's baggage whether accompanied or not.
3) The guns and ammo are for the exclusive use of the person and not for resale or other transfer of ownership.

Category I(a) of 121.1 defines "firearms" (as applies to hunters and/or target shooters, the only way to bring a gun into Canada) as a non-automatic and semi automatic firearm to caliber .50 inclusive, which is:
a) a rifle not over .50 cal which is rifled and has a barrel length of 16" or longer
b) a carbine (lightweight shoulder firearm with a barrel less than 16" long
c) A pistol, which is a hand-operated firearm having a chamber integral with or permanently aligned with the bore
d) A revolver, which has a revolving cylinder containing chambers for individual cartridges.

These articles contain references to other weapons, but none of them are legal for hunters or target shooters to possess for reasons of ATF regulations in the US.

In summary: A US citizen can take 3 rifles and 3 shotguns and 1000 rounds out of the country and return with them without a US export license, as long as they are for his use exclusively and they aren't sold or otherwise transferred. This includes the ammo. He has to stop at US customs on the way out for inspection of them.

These are only the US regulations for exporting to and returning from Canada with guns. The Canadian laws are just as detailed and must be followed too.
__________________
Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how popular it remains?

Last edited by Uncle Billy; July 16, 2009 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Spelled Peetza's name wrong 'cause it isn't in my spell-checker.
Uncle Billy is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07398 seconds with 9 queries