The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 14, 2009, 07:16 PM   #51
rmocarsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Posts: 365
response from the op concerning driveway

I do not have a drive way.

I live in a community of townhouses and due to the fact that I get home at an ungodly hour, all the street parking is always taken, leaving me to park in the alley behind the houses.

However, the alley is extremely well lit, but anyone could be hunkered down behind another parked car and not be visible.

Rmocarsky
rmocarsky is offline  
Old July 14, 2009, 08:15 PM   #52
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,789
My advice, still, is a can of pepper spray and an immediate exit, leaving no uncertainty. I would be very vocal, I would not respond directly to anything he said.

I would be YELLING (loud enough to wake the neighbors):

"GO AWAY! YOU ARE VIOLATING A RESTRAINING ORDER! DON'T COME ANY CLOSER! I WILL CALL THE POLICE! I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY AND A GUN! I DON'T WANT TO HURT YOU! GO AWAY!"

or something along those lines, but I would only be talking as long as it took me to get in my car without delay, and then I would leave and get on the phone to 911 as soon as I was moving safely.

Assuming the guy appears to be unarmed, I would spray him somewhere around 10 feet if he was approaching slowly. If he popped out closer than that I would spray him immediately and retreat as fast as possible to my car while yelling something similar to the above.

I would NOT under ANY circumstances have a conversation with the guy, or even respond directly to anything he said, from any distance, no way, no how.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old July 14, 2009, 08:27 PM   #53
MauiDoc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 2007
Location: Mountainside
Posts: 126
Is he alone....?

...and how do you know? If he's tweaked enough to be laying in wait for you, he could have 3 of his biggest ugliest like-minded buddies hunkered down waiting for him to distract you enough that they can 'just talk' to you as well, except they only speak full-contact Braille.

Don't engage. Get back in the car, lock doors, drive, 911, 1911. In that order. Or in my case, 1991A1. (If I could carry here. Which I can't )

Stay alert, be safe, you're in the right--stay there!

Just my $1.17 (inflation)
MauiDoc is offline  
Old July 14, 2009, 09:07 PM   #54
shurshot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 761
I'm guessing that the Restraining Order means you want nothing more to do with him? Time for talking is over? Right? He comes at you at 4:30AM... and threatens you (or you feel threatened)?; #1; drive away, call police. Or, #2; pepper mace him, drop kick to the balls, perhaps an extra kick or two (or three!) for good measure, then drive away and call the police. But don't shoot him unless you honestly think he is going to kill you. He might just be real stupid, and want to talk.
I would run it by your local Police Chief, let him know that you are scared, instead of getting advice from folks on here. No offense meant to anybody, but this guy needs to document, talk with a local authority who can verify that he was in fear and asked for help, and protect him self, both now, and after the fact...

Last edited by shurshot; July 14, 2009 at 09:15 PM.
shurshot is offline  
Old July 14, 2009, 10:15 PM   #55
Beauhooligan
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2008
Posts: 70
"I am the OP.

What are the best means of non-lethal defense available to civilians and the most potent to put 'em down from maybe 10 yards instantly and not endanger yourself of going down beside him due to wind change?

I am serious . . .

I have a real fear that this will probably occur.

What is the BEST most debilitating LEGAL non-lethal crusher available?

BTW . . . I live in Maryland . . .the most Victim-is probably the perp_state in the Country "

My advice: Escape! Get to your car and drive away. Call 911 and ask for an officer to meet you and return with you to the scene. The digital audio recorder idea, or using your cell phone to grab a photo may be all well and good, but don't let acquiring evidence slow you from your primary goal: Escape! I cannot say this to stridently: Do anything you have to do that will keep you from having to shoot.

Once you pull the trigger, you set a series of events into motion that may be, in the long run, worse than you can imagine. I'm old, many times broken, need a cane to walk, and a beating by a street tough could cripple me forever, but I don't know if I would shoot someone over getting my ass whipped. I was in jail once for 4 days. In modern California a woman can accuse you of anything, with no substantiation, and witnesses to the contrary, and if it's on Friday night you don't see a Judge until Tuesday, just to find out no charges are being filed. I just can't think about doing a stretch in prison. I wish more of the "go ahead and shoot" people had spent a few days sleeping on a steel bunk, 10 inches off the floor, with a 1 inch thick foam mattress. Oh yes, the social circle sucks, as does the food. Then there is the whole "spend all you have ever made or will ever make, lose your job and good name, be separated from your family and friends and endure terrible loneliness and depression" thing.


This is pretty much the way I remember it from my time as a cop. If the assailant is not threatening you with lethal force, you may not use lethal force without facing criminal charges. If you pull your gun on him, do not shoot, and there is a witness: you could be charged with assault with a deadly weapon. If your assailant is armed with anything that can be considered to be a lethal weapon, and you shoot and kill him, you may have a good shot at self defense. If you shoot him and he is not armed with a lethal weapon, your trial will turn around if the victim was presenting "reasonable provocation". "Bare fear" does not, in most cases, provide "reasonable provocation". If he is causing such provocation your fall will be for "voluntary manslaughter". If he was not causing such provocation, and say the jury decides that you just got angry enough from the repeated confrontations that you just went and shot him, then your fall will be for "second degree murder". This is not the end of the dissertation, just the tip.:barf:
Beauhooligan is offline  
Old July 14, 2009, 10:29 PM   #56
rmocarsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Posts: 365
hand-held stun gun?

I am the OP.

I am not sure of the name of the device, but those hand-held shockers that supposedly down a foe through voltage, what about them?

If your attackers hands are on your flesh, can the shock be transmitted to you?

Rmocarsky
rmocarsky is offline  
Old July 14, 2009, 11:03 PM   #57
pax
Staff
 
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: Washington state
Posts: 6,933
rmocarsky ~

Do not even consider a "stun gun." Those are basically worthless, of no value whatsoever. I've been shocked by one many times, voluntarily. It barely hurts and certainly does not incapacitate.

If you are interested in a Taser, get the brand name for sure. A Taser will incapacitate an attacker -- IF -- the hit is solid and everything goes well. It incapacitates the subject not by pain, but by putting a lot of "noise" down the nerves, so that signals cannot get from the brain to the muscles. And it really truly works, under the right circumstances. (And no, you're very unlikely to shock yourself with a Taser. Just doesn't work that way; you can be hands-on with the guy and still not receive a shock yourself.)

However: it isn't a panacea. For a quick overview of the realistic limitations of Tasers for self-defense, see this thread: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=364467

One more thing. You are so very adamant about non-lethal force, and obviously you've got a specific and probably heartbreaking situation to deal with. However... http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...6&postcount=23

pax
__________________
Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Old July 14, 2009, 11:26 PM   #58
djohn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 507
stun guns are up close and personal by direct contact to your attacker.Should the attacker be touching you,the current will not pass to your body.

Stun devices work on high voltage but very low amperage.Amperage is the current that can pass through one person on to the next until it finds a ground at the end.


The voltage produced by stun guns begins to dissipate immediately within musle tissue of a person directly contacted with the current.


If you look it to a stun gun,check out the flashlight stun gun.The light directly in of an attackers eyes can help to your advantage.



Tazers would be the more effective approach.Tazer may have lower voltage but operate on higher wattage.Tazers also attack the muscle and nervous system which makes it more effective then a stun gun.
__________________
Dave.

Last edited by djohn; July 14, 2009 at 11:34 PM.
djohn is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09588 seconds with 9 queries