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Old June 21, 2009, 11:58 PM   #1
KAOS
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Does Castle Doctrine Cover a Detached Garage?

I work 3rd shift so on the weekends when im off i stay on 3rd shift schedule. In the summer im usually working in my garage or up in the loft above my garage. I was wondering if it ever came a time that I had to defend myself in my garage would the castle doctrine be in effect?
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Old June 22, 2009, 12:46 AM   #2
maestro pistolero
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What State?
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Old June 22, 2009, 02:01 AM   #3
KAOS
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ohio
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Old June 22, 2009, 07:19 AM   #4
Kreyzhorse
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I'm not a lawyer, but the Castle Doctrine really just allows you to stand your ground, in your home or not. In other words, it is no longer your duty to retreat like it was under the previous Ohio law.
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Old June 22, 2009, 08:28 AM   #5
Bartholomew Roberts
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Here is what appears to be the relevant Ohio statute:

Quote:
2901.05 Burden of proof - reasonable doubt - self-defense.
(A) Every person accused of an offense is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and the burden of proof for all elements of the offense is upon the prosecution. The burden of going forward with the evidence of an affirmative defense, and the burden of proof, by a preponderance of the evidence, for an affirmative defense, is upon the accused.

(B)(1) Subject to division (B)(2) of this section, a person is presumed to have acted in self defense or defense of another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if the person against whom the defensive force is used is in the process of unlawfully and without privilege to do so entering, or has unlawfully and without privilege to do so entered, the residence or vehicle occupied by the person using the defensive force.

(2)(a) The presumption set forth in division (B)(1) of this section does not apply if the person against whom the defensive force is used has a right to be in, or is a lawful resident of, the residence or vehicle.

(b) The presumption set forth in division (B)(1) of this section does not apply if the person who uses the defensive force uses it while in a residence or vehicle and the person is unlawfully, and without privilege to be, in that residence or vehicle.

(3) The presumption set forth in division (B)(1) of this section is a rebuttable presumption and may be rebutted by a preponderance of the evidence.

(C) As part of its charge to the jury in a criminal case, the court shall read the definitions of “reasonable doubt” and “proof beyond a reasonable doubt,” contained in division (D) of this section.

(D) As used in this section:

(1) An “affirmative defense” is either of the following:

(a) A defense expressly designated as affirmative;

(b) A defense involving an excuse or justification peculiarly within the knowledge of the accused, on which the accused can fairly be required to adduce supporting evidence.

(2) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind that has a roof over it and that is designed to be occupied by people lodging in the building or conveyance at night, regardless of whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent or is mobile or immobile. As used in this division, a building or conveyance includes, but is not limited to, an attached porch, and a building or conveyance with a roof over it includes, but is not limited to, a tent.

(3) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as a guest.

(4) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, that is designed to transport people or property.

(E) “Reasonable doubt” is present when the jurors, after they have carefully considered and compared all the evidence, cannot say they are firmly convinced of the truth of the charge. It is a doubt based on reason and common sense. Reasonable doubt is not mere possible doubt, because everything relating to human affairs or depending on moral evidence is open to some possible or imaginary doubt. “Proof beyond a reasonable doubt” is proof of such character that an ordinary person would be willing to rely and act upon it in the most important of the person’s own affairs.

Effective Date: 11-01-1978; 2008 SB184 09-09-2008
Looking at the definitions in that statute, it looks to me as if a detached garage is a "dwelling"; but probably not a "residence" since people do not reside there overnight. You would want to look at Ohio caselaw probably for a discussion of that difference since the presumption created by Castle Doctrine only applies to a "residence" or vehicle in the Ohio code.

This doesn't mean that a shoot in the garage would be bad. It would just mean that the state would not automatically presume that you acted in self defense like it would if the shooting took place in your house.
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Old June 22, 2009, 09:09 AM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
it looks to me as if a detached garage is a "dwelling"; but probably not a "residence" since people do not reside there overnight.
Actually based on the definitions, it seems to me like a garage is closer to the definition of a "residence", since residence doesn't mention having to stay overnight, ie "resides temporarily". However, it seems likely that it would be covered under "dwelling" since dwelling includes attached porches, "but is not limited to".

"But is not limited to" is often an appeal to a common sense approach indicating that all such locations cannot be listed in the law and so one must appeal to common sense to answer the question.

Overall, I'm sure it's included under one of those places.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; June 22, 2009 at 09:15 AM.
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Old June 22, 2009, 10:10 AM   #7
Uncle Buck
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A friend and I had this debate here in Missouri. What it boiled down to was the fact that regardless of where I am, what I am doing (working in one of the barns or piddling around in the garage), if I feel my life is threatened I have the right to defend myself.
(I am disabled and have trouble walking, so even if I was sitting on the deck and felt my life was threatened, would the castle doctrine apply?)
A lawyer friend said in my case, because of my limited physical abilities, it would apply to me. (He is also a liberal and thinks I should just give up guns and call the police. Anything I have can be replaced... You know the story.)
I know a lawyer can be expensive, but if you have concerns, talk to a lawyer and get a professional opinion.
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Old June 22, 2009, 12:54 PM   #8
Frank Ettin
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It's really impossible to accurately speculate on how, or whether, a judge will apply the law to a detached garage in a particular circumstance just from reading the statute.

The statute quoted says "residence." Whether or not "residence" includes a detached garage is going to be up to a judge. There may or may not be other law, statutes or judicial decisions, that will influence how the judge will rule. There's no substitute for doing a proper job of research.
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Old June 22, 2009, 04:00 PM   #9
KAOS
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thanks for the help. i know in any situation that involves my family or myself im gonna do whatever needs to be done to make sure that we are still breathing. when it comes to self defense its a really good idea to know as much about the law as possible just in case option b is available.
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The Castle Doctrine
Because When SECONDS Count And The Police Are Only MINUTES Away, Your Pistol Better Not Be Your Only Defense....

__________________________________________________________

GLOCK 19
SPRINGFIELD XD 3" 9MM
GSG 5P
WALTHER P22
HI-POINT 9MM
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Old June 22, 2009, 04:29 PM   #10
wickedrider
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Maybe late answer, but, put a cot in the garage or upstairs and a small refrigerater. Sleep there on occasion. Now you have a dwelling and/or a temporary residence, however temporary.
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Old June 22, 2009, 08:12 PM   #11
chris in va
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Do you reside on your property? Yes?
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Old June 25, 2009, 02:14 PM   #12
B.N.Real
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I agree with Chris.

That is your property and it is a permanent dwelling.

Just because it is your car that dwells there does'nt mean you going into it every day nor so is'nt you visiting your dwelling on a temporary basis.

As is the case with every post we read here,it really matters what state you live in and what the laws there are.

All the way down to the county/city level.
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Old June 25, 2009, 04:22 PM   #13
ImprobableJoe
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I wonder if it would matter if you threw a futon up in the loft?
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