The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old June 8, 2009, 02:00 PM   #26
doh_312
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2008
Posts: 312
My wife has her own carry firearm so I could take my XD40 with me and she can stay with her Bersa. That is prolly the main difference for me.

If I were in your situation I would have put the XD in her hands, instead of under the seat. She has to reach for it down there which takes her eyes off the BG, exposes her to injury, and extends the time it takes to get the pistol in her hands and trained on BG.

Imagine if the guy smashes your driver side window with a crowbar or something. Aside from glass fragments your wife has to lean over or on to reach for the pistole, she is leaning towards the BG, and lowering her head so he could easily reach through the open window and grab her.
doh_312 is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:09 PM   #27
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,791
Quote:
No I would not have changed anything if unarmed. Does that prove that I am the right kind of gun owner in your opinion?
You would leave your wife and children alone in a car, parked next to a suspicious person, at night, in an unknown town?


You want to know what you SHOULD have done?

You should have parked your car directly in front of the hotel lobby. You should have taken your entire family inside, right away, and reported a suspicious person outside. Check into your room, go back outside when the suspicious person is gone, alone, since the wife will be with the kids, and move the car to the closest and/or safest parking spot. Go inside and go to sleep. In the morning, find a new place to stay.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:09 PM   #28
cloud8a
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 341
""My wife has her own carry firearm so I could take my XD40 with me and she can stay with her Bersa. That is prolly the main difference for me.

If I were in your situation I would have put the XD in her hands, instead of under the seat. She has to reach for it down there which takes her eyes off the BG, exposes her to injury, and extends the time it takes to get the pistol in her hands and trained on BG.""

I agree I could have put the gun in her lap but it did not occur to me. As far as a gun for my wife, she has a .38 snub but we just did not bring it because we felt mine was enough. I do not have a CCW permit so the XD had to stay in the car anyway. Since I was the only one getting in and out of the car the duration of the trip maybe I should have put it under her seat.
cloud8a is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:11 PM   #29
sakeneko
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2009
Location: Nevada
Posts: 644
As to handling the same situation in the future, you just explained why I don't book hotel rooms for hotels I am not already familiar with through an online travel site like Expedia. A booking through a site like that is prepaid; it leaves you on the hook even if the site doesn't meet your basic expectations for being safe and decent. I figured that out back in the late 1990s when I booked something through one of those sites -- I think it was Travelocity. I was on a road trip and booked a room at a Comfort Inn in a small town off of I-40 in Arizona or New Mexico.

The Comfort Inns as a whole are decent places; this one was not. There was a crowd of drunk rowdies staying there that night; they were leering and whistling as I walked in the front door. Asked the clerk about them; was told they were harmless. My instincts told me otherwise. They didn't seem just rowdy, but mean and out of control. I asked the clerk to cancel my reservation; he couldn't do it because I'd booked through this third-party site.

I left anyway and found another place to say, fortunately. (It was summer travel season.) The next day I called the booking site's 800 number. They wouldn't refund my money. I complained to the manager, but no joy. Fortunately I wasn't going to go broke over one night at a hotel, but if I'd booked for a week, I'd have been out the week. :/

I'd suggest it's worth the extra $10 to $20 you pay if you book directly with the hotel when you haven't been there before. If you're worried about loosing one night's room rate, just find out what their cancellation cutoff is and arrange to get there sooner. That's not a bad idea in any event when you aren't familiar with the hotel or neighborhood.

You and your family got out of this in one piece, though. So all is well. :-)

Last edited by pax; June 8, 2009 at 02:47 PM. Reason: deleted personal attack
sakeneko is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:12 PM   #30
Wildalaska
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,174
Quote:
however, I am curious Mr. Alaska, what you would have done differently?
Take a ride around the block. Call 911, then go treat the kiddies to Mickey Ds. Call the Motel front desk. Call Expedia to complain.

But to deliberately insert your family into a situation where your hinkeymeter is moving to the red zone just cuz you have a gun?

Quote:
No I would not have changed anything if unarmed. Does that prove that I am the right kind of gun owner in your opinion?
To be brutally frank, it proves to me you need to get some training or practice some introspection

Quote:
Now it is time for a detailed description of everything I did wrong and how to correct it.
Wrong: you chose to check in whilst there was an aura of hinkiness and left your wife and kids there JUST BECAUSE YOU HAD A GUN.

Corrections: See above.

Would you have left your wife and kids alone in that situation if you didnt have your gunny with you?

WilditsagoodexperienceAlaska ™
Wildalaska is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:14 PM   #31
cloud8a
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 341
""You would leave your wife and children alone in a car, parked next to a suspicious person, at night, in an unknown town?


You want to know what you SHOULD have done?

You should have parked your car directly in front of the hotel lobby. You should have taken your entire family inside, right away, and reported a suspicious person outside. Check into your room, go back outside, alone and move the car to the closest and/or safest parking spot. Go inside and go to sleep. In the morning, find a new place to stay.""

I parked right smack dab at the front door. My wife had a gun so suspicious person was noted. I did all those things except take the whole family inside. Like I said my wife was armed.
cloud8a is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:21 PM   #32
OuTcAsT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2006
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,211
Quote:
Sounds to me you have a beed on the situation so lets hear how you would have.
OK, You asked for feedback, try and take it as a "constructive" criticism:

Quote:
I cased the parking area seeing some suspicious looking folks at the hotel entrance.
This would set off an alarm in my head that maybe this is not a good place to be, and certainly not with my Wife and Kids.

Quote:
I decided that if something bad was going to happen I wanted it to happen at the entrance in the light.
This is where your decisions become dubious, If I thought something "bad" was going to happen the last thing I would do is :

Quote:
So I drove to the entrance parked the car
You have already stated that you had seen some "suspicious looking folks" at the entrance, and that you felt aware that "something bad" could happen, Might be a good time to call the desk of the hotel, from a distance, and express your concern for safely entering their establishment, they might have called Police or, you could have.

To put yourself, let alone your family, in that situation was
not wise.


Quote:
She knows how to use my XD, she has shot it on many occasion. She has no fear when it comes to protecting the family. Her responsibility to do so is the same as mine, and she knows that and more than willingly accepts that role.
Seems that your decision to drive into the dangerous situation left her no choice in the matter.

Quote:
I did cancel my reservation for the next night and got a refund (we prepaid) and stayed at a much nicer hotel across town. We are not poor and we are not rich (but we used to be poor) so since we got our res. through Expedia we were in a tight place on a refund until I could get them on the phone the next morning.
if you got your hotel reservations thru expedia, they have a 24hr hotline where you can change reservations, or get refunds, from the safety of the "much nicer hotel across town", they credit back your card instantly in most cases.

Quote:
It is called being a free man
It is a free country, and you certainly have a right to make your own decisions as you see fit, but if you describe your actions, and ask for advice, then expect to get it. Sometimes it may not be what you want to hear.

A firearm is not a license to make poor choices.
__________________
WITHOUT Freedom of Thought, there can be no such Thing as Wisdom; and no such Thing as public Liberty, without Freedom of Speech. Silence Dogood

Does not morality imply the last clear chance? - WildAlaska -
OuTcAsT is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:22 PM   #33
Wildalaska
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,174
Quote:
Like I said my wife was armed
It seems to me you are more interested in allowing your ego needs to overide an important lesson here.

YOU could have avoided the whole scenario easily. Instead, you allowed the great gunwoobie to lull you into a false sense of security.

Be great for the kiddies to see mommy bust a cap into some guy Be even greater if it was a bad shoot and mommy gets indicted.

WHY IN GODS NAME WOULD YOU PUT YOUR FAMILY IN A SITUATION WHERE YOUR WIFE MAY NEED TO SHOOT SOMEONE? FOR WHAT?

you made a mistake. learn and move on.

WildsorrytoshoutbutreallyAlaska ™
Wildalaska is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:23 PM   #34
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 1,561
Quote:
It is a free country, and you certainly have a right to make your own decisions as you see fit, but if you describe your actions, and ask for advice, then expect to get it. Sometimes it may not be what you want to hear.

A firearm is not a license to make poor choices.
best post in the thread
5whiskey is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:24 PM   #35
cloud8a
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 27, 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 341
So according to your logic you are supposed to avoid every strange and shady person by miles BECAUSE YOU HAVE A GUN. I do not agree. Like I said I do not live in the wilderness I live in a major city. There is a population of strange and shady people. Most of them are not even aware that they are strange and shady.
cloud8a is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:26 PM   #36
doh_312
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2008
Posts: 312
I aint doggin on you cloud8. There have been many a situation where I reflect on it later and I would have changed many choices I made. Im sure I could tell you one of my experiences and you'd point out bad things I did. This is the way with everyone, we all look for specific things we deem nessecary for safety because of our past instances where we didn't feel safe.

Just wanted to clarify, I do not think I am holier (sp?)than thou. Just givin my two cents so you could do what I consider the "safer" thing to do next time.
doh_312 is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:32 PM   #37
djohn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 507
Here is what I would have done differently.I would have picked up my cell dialed in the hotel manager and Informed Him or her of the shady looking man and called the police to investigate it.I would have not left my wife and children alone in a parking lot period,Gun or No gun.


Secondly any sleezy hotel that allows hoodlems or crack heads to linger outside or inside there establishment is one I would have passed on and searched elsewhere.
__________________
Dave.
djohn is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:38 PM   #38
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 1,561
My take on this???

I tend to agree with WAs thought process. Our first rule as responsible, productive, and armed citizens... is to avoid any situation that looks shady enough to potentially turn into a SD situation. This is not to say you should always be afraid of your own shadow, or stand idly by while bad men do bad things. It is merely addressing the concern that if you can avoid putting your family in a situation such as described then that's probably the best approach. Avoiding a potential encounter is a wonderful thing.

I also agree with the OP that we shouldn't let criminals rule us by making us afraid to half the places in town. I get the thought process and agree with you to an extent. There is a fine line of rationale there that states "I can't run away from every possible situation, as I would always be running away". I get that and I sympathize with you. I do think that if the spider sense is going off like crazy, as it should have been in this situation, then I would probably try to remove myself from the situation before it lead to a firefight. A little prudence in the fore-end is better than Johnny Cochran after the fact

Last edited by pax; June 8, 2009 at 02:50 PM. Reason: deleted personal comments
5whiskey is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 02:47 PM   #39
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,792
Ok, we have run its course.

Let me inform all concerned that we like you to focus on the issue. It is not your place to psychoanalyze or comment on others.

Point out your analysis and avoid the personal.


If you find them inappropriate, PM or hit the little report button for us.

I also caution that
Quote:
quote
war bickering is going to get you nailed.

And since I seem to be the one here - I'm nailing this one. There are some reasonable tactics suggested. That's it.

Glenn
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10296 seconds with 9 queries