The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 4, 2009, 10:52 PM   #1
sonogy47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2009
Posts: 13
Legal shotgun lengths

I inherited a sawed off 12 gauge shotgun. I just measured the barrel with a tape measure. It is 18.5 inches. The total length including the stock and barrel is 33.5. This is a correction to the barrel length I posted yesterday. I assumed it was shorter since it was sawed off.

Last edited by sonogy47; June 5, 2009 at 11:35 PM.
sonogy47 is offline  
Old June 4, 2009, 10:54 PM   #2
comn-cents
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2008
Location: Pac.N.W.
Posts: 1,804
how short? i think its a federal law nothing less than 18in.
__________________
Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!
comn-cents is offline  
Old June 4, 2009, 10:59 PM   #3
sonogy47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2009
Posts: 13
Shotgun Corrected Length

I just got out the tape measure and the barrel is 18.5 inches. The total length including barrel and stock is 33.5. This is a correction to the length I posted earlier. I should have measured before asking.

Last edited by sonogy47; June 5, 2009 at 11:25 PM.
sonogy47 is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 12:18 AM   #4
SkyKing1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2009
Location: USSA
Posts: 8
You're shotgun is in violation of the NFA and would send you directly to prison if you happened to use it in any capacity! Might I remind you that the BATFE along with the state of Wisconsin just sent a man to federal prison(Sandstone, MN)for 2-years simply for loaning out his AR-15 that malfunctioned and fired a three round burst! While I would love to argue that all federal firearms laws are illegal and a violation of the Second Amendment(they are)that still doesn't change the fact that the federal government is relieving otherwise squeaky clean Americans of their liberty for violating their illegal gun laws! My advice, contact an attorney to see if you're even safe in alerting your local sheriff's office as to the existence of the weapon so they can remove it(legally)from your home! I'm not kidding! Get rid of it....
SkyKing1 is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 12:26 AM   #5
comn-cents
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2008
Location: Pac.N.W.
Posts: 1,804
what kind of gun? Can the barrel be replaced?
Replace it and hammer that old barrel flat.
You don't even need to shoot it to get in trouble, just having it.
__________________
Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!
comn-cents is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 12:31 AM   #6
Frank Ettin
Staff
 
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,918
What he said. Mere possession of that shotgun is a federal felony. If an LEO find you in possession of that shotgun, whether or not you used it in self defense, you will be going to jail and paying a lawyer a lot of money to try to get you the best deal possible.
Frank Ettin is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 12:48 AM   #7
djohn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 507
I think you should seperate the barrel from stock and make it a none functional for the time being.I would not want to be caught up with that.contact a lawyer afterwards.If you turn it in give it to them in pieces.
__________________
Dave.
djohn is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 01:02 AM   #8
KLRANGL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 958
Quote:
I guess it's 14 inches or shorter.
Maybe you should measure it. You know, with a ruler. From the end of the chamber to the end of the barrel.
If it is under 18inches (or 18.5 if you wana be safe), ditch it ASAP.
Homework:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawed-off_shotgun

Its not the one in this pic per chance is it? Far right
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...8&d=1244172794
__________________
And it's Killer Angel... as in the book
KLRANGL is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 05:04 AM   #9
BMSMA
Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2009
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 51
Does anyone happen to know if there is a grandfather clause to the federal law or is it all shotguns...period?
BMSMA is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 05:47 AM   #10
Hank D.
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2009
Location: Lincoln, Delaware
Posts: 64
shot gun & rifle brl. size

I do believe that the standard for shot guns Is 18" or longer and 16" for rifles, Or very close to that!
Did not the ATF set up Randy Weaver back In 1992, In or on Ruby Ridge , Idaho, thay had him cut the barrol of a shot gun down to 17-1/2" or something like that. Just another case of our great Goverment looking out for us:barf: Semper FI to all, Hank D.
Hank D. is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 06:10 AM   #11
tomgun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Location: penna,no wait state
Posts: 187
measure

i believe the measuring is with the longest round itll accept chambered,saftey on,insert a dowel down the barrell till it meets the round,mark it and measure.
tomgun is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 06:47 AM   #12
stargazer65
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 761
Hank check your keyboard I think it's on full auto.
__________________
"I assert that nothing ever comes to pass without a cause." Jonathan Edwards
stargazer65 is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 07:54 AM   #13
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS
Posts: 5,090
Quote:
believe the measuring is with the longest round itll accept chambered,saftey on,insert a dowel down the barrell till it meets the round,mark it and measure
Not exactly. The method is accurate, but it is measured to the bolt face - not the round. Do it while unloaded.
Doyle is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 08:01 AM   #14
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
Tomgun, That was a tactic used in some areas or by some LEO's...
Michigan officers often told folks that was how to measure in the 1970's...
Would it be legal to remove or shorten the firing pin and weld hole and/or have a steel plug welded in the breech so it cannot take a shell? That way he has both an heirloom as well as a neat knick knack conversation piece...
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 08:05 AM   #15
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,845
smash the barrel and see if you can get a replacement. Is this a possible antique exception? I never thought about antique SBRs and SBSs.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 08:08 AM   #16
grymster2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa
Posts: 2,203
Quote:
Might I remind you that the BATFE along with the state of Wisconsin just sent a man to federal prison(Sandstone, MN)for 2-years simply for loaning out his AR-15 that malfunctioned and fired a three round burst!
If you're talking about Olofson, I think he did more than just lend out a weapon that just happened to malfunction and shoot automatically. This case will be different in that the OP inherited an illegal weapon rather than personally making it illegal and if he immediately comes forward to turn it in, he should not be prosecuted.
__________________
grym
grymster2007 is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 08:40 AM   #17
skydiver3346
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 22, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,222
Sawed off Shotgun?

Hi Sonogy47,
I believe you are in serious trouble if you are "caught" with this shotgun.
Whether you shoot it at someone or in your possession. It is a federal offense to own or have any shotgun barrel under 18" (as the others have already stated). I belive it is a $10,000. fine or (10) years in prision for this offense if I recall correctly?
skydiver3346 is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 09:58 AM   #18
KLRANGL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 958
Lots of "smash the barrel" talk. Why not just get it registered in the NFA database?
$200, a two applications with fingerprint cards and photos is all you need.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53201.pdf

Quote:
Does anyone happen to know if there is a grandfather clause to the federal law or is it all shotguns...period?
The grandfather clause was for any short barrel shotgun already in existence could be registered in the NFA database (for free I think) and be legally owned. Still has to be in the database one way or another, but that brings up an interesting point. Was it actually registered in the database? If it was, transferring it to your name is cheap and easy. Again, all assuming that it is shorter than 18inches, which I doubt. The side-by-side shotguns always look shorter than they really are.

Edit:
Quote:
Not exactly. The method is accurate, but it is measured to the bolt face - not the round. Do it while unloaded.
I just double checked this, and you are right. My 870 with 18.5inch barrel measures 18.5inches to the bolt face exactly. As I said above, side by side and break barrel shotgun look shorter than they really are, because the bolt face is located farther back than on a pump or auto shotgun. The stoeger coach gun always looked like 14-16inches to me, but I was surprised to find that it was actually 20 inches. Gota bust out that tape measure to be sure.
__________________
And it's Killer Angel... as in the book

Last edited by KLRANGL; June 5, 2009 at 10:16 AM.
KLRANGL is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 11:05 AM   #19
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,657
Quote:
Is this a possible antique exception? I never thought about antique SBRs and SBSs.
There are historical exceptions. The ATF has excluded a few historic shotgun models from the NFA and deemed them either Antiques (pre-1/1/1899, no FFL required for transfer) or Curios & Relics (C&R FFL necessary for transfer). Check Sections III and IIIA here:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/2001index.htm

Two caveats:

A gun must be in its original configuration to be considered an Antique or C&R. This regulation has been recently discussed at length in the TFL C&R subforum, and the definition of "original configuration" can be somewhat nebulous, but IMHO most radical modifications to a gun's original configuration are fairly obvious and easy to determine. (Half the stock missing? Not original. Barrel cut? Not original.)

The guns in Section IV are still covered by the NFA. They must be registered in the NFA database for legal ownership. They can be transferred across state lines by C&R licensees without needing a Class III dealer, which cuts through some red tape during sale, but doesn't help someone who finds themselves in possession of an unregistered NFA gun. Consult the NFA subforum for more details.
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 06:21 PM   #20
sonogy47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 4, 2009
Posts: 13
It is legal fellas!

That was really dumb of me to post that question BEFORE I actually measured it. I just got out the tape measure and it is 18.5 inches. You guys had me really nervous for a second. I always thought it was under 18 inches until I measured it today because it has been sawed. I just never thought to actually measure it.

Last edited by sonogy47; June 5, 2009 at 07:16 PM.
sonogy47 is offline  
Old June 5, 2009, 10:06 PM   #21
tony pasley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 13, 2006
Location: western north carolina
Posts: 1,399
18.5" legal but is the over all length under 26 " that is a factor also.
__________________
'It has been said that politics is the
second oldest profession. I have learned
that it bears a striking resemblance
to the first.' - Ronald Reagan
tony pasley is offline  
Old June 6, 2009, 06:28 PM   #22
johnwilliamson062
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 6,845
I don't think you can add a gun to the NFA registry if it is already chopped. You have to get the licenses before you do the work. there was an amnesty when the restrictions first came into play and it had to be registered then, or at least that was my understanding.
__________________
$0 of an NRA membership goes to legislative action or court battles. Not a dime. Only money contributed to the NRA-ILA or NRA-PVF. You could just donate to the Second Amendment Foundation
First Shotgun Thread First Rifle Thread First Pistol Thread

Last edited by johnwilliamson062; June 6, 2009 at 11:19 PM.
johnwilliamson062 is offline  
Old June 6, 2009, 08:50 PM   #23
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,825
Simply put, the shot gun is legal.
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer, USPSA NROI Range Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Reply

Tags
shotgun

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12934 seconds with 9 queries