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Old May 18, 2009, 11:01 AM   #26
ilbob
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Location: Northern Illinois
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My guess is that in Illinois a fully preempted LTC bill will never happen, short of a court order. It just is not in the cards. I don't see the courts requiring CC, even if they ever get around to ruling on the "bear" part of "keep and bear" before Obama packs the courts or some idiot case screws us out of it.

The preemption part of it is part of the problem. Even home rule units that could care less about the LTC issue, may well lobby against the bill because it intrudes on their prerogatives as HR units.

Don't get me wrong. I realize the STHR option creates some serious problems that license holders would have to deal with. I also realize these problems are more serious than the more strident supporters of a STHR LTC are willing to admit. I am still unwilling to give up on it completely because it is quite clear there is no other realistic option to any kind of LTC in Illinois.
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Old May 20, 2009, 09:04 AM   #27
Swan Hunter
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I'm not sure you know what that means!!

Quote:
will not find it significantly more attractive to risk breaking the law when the penalty is a misdemeanor than when it's a felony. Having a weapons related misdemeanor on your record is not like getting a traffic ticket.
With all due respect!!! I realize a weapon related misdemeanor isn't like a traffic ticket but, under current law, you get a weapons related FELONY which means loss of gun rights, and MUCH STIFFER SENTENCES and fines!

Would you rather get a splinter in your hand or have it chopped off???
Would you rather get a misdemeanor or a felony?
I wouldn't only find it significantly more attractive to get a misdemeanor I would find it freakin beautiful!
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Old May 21, 2009, 12:36 AM   #28
JohnKSa
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Quote:
...under current law, you get a weapons related FELONY...
With all due respect, how is it possible you could think I didn't realize that when I clearly said: "...will not find it significantly more attractive to risk breaking the law when the penalty is a misdemeanor than when it's a felony."?

You're perfectly correct in that those who abide by the law solely to avoid the punishment a felony offense incurs will find this law a big improvement over the current situation.

However, that's not the end of the story.

There are many people who are unwilling to accept the penalty for even a misdemeanor (which, by the way could even involve jail time).
There are many people who abide by the law simply because it's the right thing to do.
There are many people who abide by the law because of other peripheral issues associated with breaking the law (background checks for work, loss carry permit, etc.) that carry a penalty beyond the obvious punishment imposed.
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Old May 24, 2009, 07:57 PM   #29
Don Gwinn
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Those people will have two choices: they can avoid carrying a gun at all, or they can carry their gun, but look at the Illinois State Police's list of municipalities that still prohibit carrying and disarm before entering those places. If they can't avoid those towns, all they have to do is unload and encase the firearm before they enter them.

And before anyone says that's too much to ask, keep in mind that at this moment, that's the requirement on every inch of Illinois soil, not in a few selected municipalities.
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Old May 24, 2009, 08:07 PM   #30
Don Gwinn
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Quote:
No, my position only requires me to believe that law-abiding citizens (the only people who care about permit laws in the first place) will not find it significantly more attractive to risk breaking the law when the penalty is a misdemeanor than when it's a felony. Having a weapons related misdemeanor on your record is not like getting a traffic ticket.
First of all, I didn't say anything about traffic tickets. However, you and I agree that the act of carrying a firearm should be legal throughout Illinois. The difference is that I say it's clearly a step in the right direction to turn an act that is currently a felony in all locations into an act that is legal in most locations and a misdemeanor in some locations. You say it's not a big enough step, but you've offered nothing in its place. I ask again, what's your plan and why is it better?

Second, you say your position requires you to believe that law-abiding citizens will not find this system of licensing an attractive option. I grant you that could be true. However, why not let them determine that for themselves? Why be opposed to even giving them the choice? If you're right, and they decide that carrying a firearm in a state where home-rule entities can still prohibit carry is too risky, then they won't carry, which is exactly what they're doing now, because that act is currently a felony under state law.

You may think you know what choice they're going to make, but that's not a compelling reason not to offer the choice.
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