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Old May 5, 2009, 04:42 PM   #1
ClemBert
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Anyone here use KIK, Jack's, or Diamondback BP?

I was wondering how these more obscure black powders compared to GOEX 3Fg in your BP revolver. Please tell me your assessment after having used them versus your use of GOEX.
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Old May 5, 2009, 05:12 PM   #2
arcticap
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Here's link to KIK reports ( with mention of Shuetzen from Graf's):

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/...p?topic=1550.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/...p?topic=3689.0

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/...p?topic=4319.0

Jack's is repackaged Goex bulk. cheaper since they are located close to the plant:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/...p?topic=2666.0


About Diamondback:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/...p?topic=4102.0

Elsewhere:

Quote:
Tried it in a Walker pistol. Shot the same for accracy but seamed to get a little more recoil (45 gr.load and round ball.) It was alot more dirtier and harder to reload then goex. Think I'll stay with the goex powder. It was 3fff powder that I tried. Hope this helps ya. Teton Ted
Quote:
It's not actually made at the old Elephant plant but with the same equipment. Supposedly the new company is using better Potassium Nitrate and Charcoal to get a better product. It is not available in Canada. I checked the NRC's authorized explosives list and it is not on there. Today I spoke with a Diamondback rep and he is concentrating on the US market now. The biggest selling point seems to be the price as it is at least 20% less than Goex.
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Old May 5, 2009, 11:39 PM   #3
Oquirrh
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I shoot Kik and Goex depending on which is available. Can't tell any difference out of my cap and ball revolvers. The Kik costs less.
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Old May 6, 2009, 09:54 AM   #4
ClemBert
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Saw this comparison: Comparison of Goex, KIK, Elephant black powder
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Old May 6, 2009, 06:03 PM   #5
long rider
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I think you would have to go a long way to beat
swiss, but next one down would be goex 3f and 2f.
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Old May 6, 2009, 10:33 PM   #6
B.L.E.
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KIK is pretty good as is Schuetzen and Goex. You can't give me a can of Elephant black powder.
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Old May 6, 2009, 10:40 PM   #7
Fingers McGee
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Quote B.L.E.
Quote:
You can't give me a can of Elephant black powder.
+1.

Last purchase was of KIK. Will find out how it works as soon as I use up the Scheutzen & Goex in the powder safe.
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Old May 7, 2009, 08:51 AM   #8
madcratebuilder
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Has anyone shot Jacks Powder Keg? $10 a pound shipped in 25lb lots. I have found KIK at $12 a pound shipped in 25lb lots.
http://www.jackspowderkeg.com/
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Old May 7, 2009, 09:01 AM   #9
ClemBert
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I wish I was nearby Jack's to pick it up in person. I really didn't want to commit to 25lbs but I'd love to get that price. It is my understanding that Jack's doesn't make BP. Rather they buy it in bulk from Goex at great discount then pour it into their own tins. More likely you'd think that Goex is just sending it to Jack's already in 1lb cans but with the Jack's logo.
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Old May 7, 2009, 11:19 AM   #10
madcratebuilder
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Quote:
I wish I was nearby Jack's to pick it up in person. I really didn't want to commit to 25lbs but I'd love to get that price. It is my understanding that Jack's doesn't make BP. Rather they buy it in bulk from Goex at great discount then pour it into their own tins. More likely you'd think that Goex is just sending it to Jack's already in 1lb cans but with the Jack's logo.
Kind of what I was thinking. He is very close to the Goex plant. I would like to find four or five guys to plit up a 25lb lot.
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Old May 7, 2009, 05:30 PM   #11
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MCB stop by and pick me up on the way to Jack's Powder Keg :O)
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Old May 14, 2009, 09:37 AM   #12
ClemBert
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I inquired a bit more about Jack's BP by directly emailing them and asking them the questions:

1. Is there any difference between Jack's Black Powder 3Fg and Goex Black Powder 3Fg?

2. Does Goex ship the Jack's Black Powder to you in the 1lb Jack's cans or do you can it yourself from bulk?

This is the response from Angelo Piazza, the company president:

I WILL ATTEMPT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT –JACKS BATTLE POWDER—BY: ANGELO J. PIAZZA, III for JACKS POWDER KEG

IT IS GOEX 5FA BLACK POWDER MADE IN DOYLINE, LOUISIANA, AND IS PRIVATELY LABELED AS “JACKS BATTLE POWDER”

IT IS A 3FFF EQUIVILANT AND IS USED BY REENACTORS IN BOTH MUSKETS AND CANNONS. IT IS NOT GLAZED WITH GRAFITE AS BLACK POWDER IS TRADITIONALLY COATED WITH THIS BLACK LUBRICANT. THIS UNGLAZED POWDER APPEARS TO MAKE OUR REENACTOR BLANK SHOTS A LITTLE CLEANER. I SELL A LOT OF IT TO INFANTRYMEN AND SMALL BORE CANNONEERS. LARGE BORE CANNONS ARE SOLD GOEX 4FA OR 3FA, DEPENDING UPON THE BORE AND DESIRED EFFECT. PURCHASES IN 25LB BULK LOTS ARE A BIG SAVINGS TO THE ENTHUSIAST/REENACTOR. I OWN 3 DIFFERENT CANNONS AND MANY RIFLES, PISTOLS AND LEVER ACTION 44-40 CALIBRES. JACKS BATTLE POWDER WORKS FOR REENACTORS FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, AND I LIKE IT. THAT’S WHY I SELL IT. NO CHINESE OR FOREIGN POWDERS FOR ME, SINCE I CAN GET A BETTER POWDER FOR LESS MONEY, MADE BY AMERICANS FOR AMERICAN HISTORICAL INTERPRETATION. WHY JEOPARDIZE OUR DOMESTIC PRODUCTION OF BLACK POWDER BY BUYING FOREIGN MADE POWDER???? WE SHOULD SUPPORT THIS AMERICAN MADE PRODUCT, SINCE GOEX IS THE ONLY AND LAST RENMAING MAKER OF BLACK POWDER IN THE UNITED STATES!!!!!

WHEN I FIRST VISITED THE GOEX PLANT I DISCOVERED THE EXISTENCE OF THIS POWDER AND LEARNED THAT IT IS TRADITIONALLY USED FOR BLASTING AND FIREWORKS. IT WORKS FOR ME!!!

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JACKS BATTLE POWDER AND OUR GOEX FG (FINE GRAIN) POWDER???

ANSWER: THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE SUBSTANCE BUT IT IS DIFFERENT IN GRANULAR STRUCTURE. THEREFORE, IN ORDER TO HIT A TARGET WITH A BULLET CONSISTENTLY, THE FG {FINE GRAIN} LINE OF GOEX POWDER IS YOUR PREFERENCE. IT IS GRADED AND MORE CONSISTENT DUE TO THE GRAIN STRUCTURE BEING MORE UNIFORM. MY “JACKS BATTLE POWDER” IS MORE A COMBINATION OF FLAKES AND GRAINS OF A GENERAL SIZE BUT IT IS NOT AS UNIFORM AS THE FINE GRAIN LINES OF POWDERS. GOEX EXPRESS IS OUR TOP OF THE LINE POWDER MADE FOR THE EXPERT MARKSMAN. GOEX FINE GRAIN IS TRADITIONALLY USED BY HUNTERS AND FOR TARGET SHOOTING. THESE LINES ARE MORE EXPENSIVE BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE LABOR INTENSIVE. JACKS BATTLE POWDER IS ECONOMICALLY FEESABLE FOR THE HISTORICAL REENACTOR WHO SHOOTS BLANKS. IT IS A HIT WITH ALL WHO HAVE TRIED IT.

JACKS BATTLE POWDER IS MOST APPROPRIATE FOR BLANK FIRING FOR HISTORICAL REENACTMENTS.

HOPE THIS HELPS, ANGELO J. PIAZZA, III, PRESIDENT JACKS POWDER KEG


My interpretation of his response is as follows. Basically, Jack's powder is for re-enactors shooting blanks and Goex is for shooting at targets with projectiles. Both powders are made my Goex and canned by Goex. Uniformity is the difference. Since I'm not a re-enactor shooting blanks it would seem that Jack's black powder isn't what I seek. I know many of you do re-enactments so you might want to consider Jack's BP. As stated above, made in America by Americans at the Goex factory AND the lowest cost black powder in bulk.
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Old May 14, 2009, 12:51 PM   #13
mykeal
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You missed one salient point:
Quote:
IT IS NOT GLAZED WITH GRAFITE
The graphite coating is noted by the 'g' in the granulation spec: ffg, fffg, etc. It serves two purposes: it protects the grain size by keeping the grains from breaking each other (ie, adds 'structure') and it provides a path for electrical energy in the event the powder is exposed to a static discharge.
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