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Old May 1, 2009, 07:11 PM   #1
dtaski
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Legal to ship ammo ?

Is it legal to ship ammo in state or out of state without a FFL ?

I live in PA.

Thanks !
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Old May 1, 2009, 08:29 PM   #2
hoytinak
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Yes, it's perfectly legal but.....you must ship ORM-D UPS or Fed-Ex as USPS won't do it.
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Old May 1, 2009, 09:11 PM   #3
Stuohn
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Ya, I just shipped some ammo this week through UPS. This is what they told me.

Has to be sent from an actual ups customer center. Call ups and they will tell where the closest place is. 1-800-742-5877

Shipping box has to be "sturdy".

Package has to have a label that looks like the attached picture (can be hand written/drawn)

You have to get the "adult signature" added to the cost of shipping. Just means someone over 18 has to be at the address your shipping to and sign for the package.

Last edited by Stuohn; November 23, 2009 at 10:29 AM.
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Old May 1, 2009, 09:41 PM   #4
tjhands
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Illegal to ship US Postal Service but UPS is good to go.
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Old May 1, 2009, 09:44 PM   #5
.45stillalive
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I did alot of research awhile back on this and i think its legal to ship usps they just wont do it, cause its evil.
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Old May 1, 2009, 09:59 PM   #6
hoytinak
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Quote:
i think its legal to ship usps they just wont do it, cause its evil.
You are correct.
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Old May 1, 2009, 10:15 PM   #7
rjrivero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoytinak
Quote:
Originally Posted by .45stillalive
I did alot of research awhile back on this and i think its legal to ship usps they just wont do it, cause its evil.
You are correct.
USPS doesn't ship Ammo because they're afraid the postal carriers will go postal.
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Old May 3, 2009, 10:41 AM   #8
EOD Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .45stillalive
I did alot of research awhile back on this and i think its legal to ship usps they just wont do it, cause its evil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoytinak

You are correct.
No, he is not correct.

While it is legal to mail some ORM-D material, there are restrictions as to which ones can be mailed. It depends on the DOT hazard class from which those materials are reclassed.

For instance, materials reclassed from DOT hazard classes 3 (flammable liquids), 8 (corrosive materials), or 1 (explosive materials) are not mailable. Since small arms ammunition is classed by DOT as a division 1.4S explosive material, it cannot be mailed even when reclassification to ORM-D is authorized by the DOT regulations. ORM-D materials are still hazardous materials under the law.

There are other restricted hazard classes. I just listed those three as examples.
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Old May 3, 2009, 12:06 PM   #9
kyle1974
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>>>No, he is not correct.

While it is legal to mail some ORM-D material, there are restrictions as to which ones can be mailed. It depends on the DOT hazard class from which those materials are reclassed.

For instance, materials reclassed from DOT hazard classes 3 (flammable liquids), 8 (corrosive materials), or 1 (explosive materials) are not mailable. Since small arms ammunition is classed by DOT as a division 1.4S explosive material, it cannot be mailed even when reclassification to ORM-D is authorized by the DOT regulations. ORM-D materials are still hazardous materials under the law.<<<

when you say "mail" are you referring to USPS only?

Last edited by kyle1974; May 3, 2009 at 12:22 PM.
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Old May 3, 2009, 03:14 PM   #10
Al Norris
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Posted this a few days ago, but it looks like it needs it again.

ORM-D (Other Regulated Material - Domestic) shipments are regulated by the D.O.T.

The following is taken from the Adazon (Label & Barcode Solutions) site.

Quote:
Title 49 CFR states in Chapter 1, section 173.63 the packaging exceptions to full regulation. Under that section, (b) Cartridges, small arms, may be reclassed, and offered for transportation, and transported as ORM–D material when packaged in accordance with paragraph (b)(2) of this section; such transportation is excepted from the requirements of subparts E (Labeling) of part 172 of this subchapter. Cartridges, small arms, and cartridges power devices that may be shipped as ORM–D material is limited to:

Under this “limited to” section, there is item (i) Ammunition for rifle, pistol or shotgun; and (iv) Ammunition not exceeding 12.7 mm (50 caliber or 0.5 inch) for rifle or pistol, cartridges or 8 gauge for shot shells.

This is the critical part to shipping ammunition. If it is 50 caliber or less, or 8 gauge or less, UPS will take the shipment in a sturdy box marked with a ORM-D, Cartridges, Small Arms label on the outside of the box. UPS does recommend using this label as opposed to a regular ORM-D label from our research and inquiries to UPS themselves. Part 172, subchapter E states the label should be affixed near the shipping address location on the package. By placing it here, the carrier will see it as they direct the package to the correct location during shipment.

Now, under section 173.115, part (v) it states that cartridges, and 22 caliber rim-fire cartridges may be packaged loose in strong outside packaging. The label marking is the same as above.
It is lawful to send ammunition through the US Post Office, but of late, non-FFL holders have had some trouble in local offices accepting shipments. Varies by locale.

The problem is that a certain amount of discretion is given to each Postmaster. Some will simply refuse and some don't care as long as the rules are followed.

The black label, with yellow lettering, is the one reccommended by the D.O.T. A single page pdf of this label is available here. Also available are blue and white labels, in the same format.
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Old May 3, 2009, 08:03 PM   #11
EOD Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipitas

Posted this a few days ago, but it looks like it needs it again.

ORM-D (Other Regulated Material - Domestic) shipments are regulated by the D.O.T.


It is lawful to send ammunition through the US Post Office, but of late, non-FFL holders have had some trouble in local offices accepting shipments. Varies by locale.
Sorry for the shouting but IT IS NOT LEGAL TO MAIL AMMUNITION. See my post above for the explanation. Also, ORM-D stand for Other Regulated Matrerial-D. The D has no meaning. Ther used to be 5 divisions of the ORM hazard class. The A through C and the E divisions have been integrated into other classes.

What you don't realize is that ORM-D materials are reclassified from other DOT hazard classes if they are packaged in smaller packages. Ammunition is classed by the DOT as an explosive material and cannot be mailed when reclassed as ORM-D.

The DOT regulation in 49 CFR relate to shipments by common carrier. The US Postal Service is not a common carrier.

Last edited by EOD Guy; May 3, 2009 at 08:13 PM.
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Old May 3, 2009, 08:09 PM   #12
EOD Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle1974


when you say "mail" are you referring to USPS only?
Yes. It is perfectly legal to ship ammunition with a common carrier such as UPS.
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Old May 3, 2009, 09:11 PM   #13
Al Norris
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EOD Guy, you can shout till you're blue in the face.

I, on the other hand, have shipped ammo via the USPS following the very procedure laid out by Adazon.
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Old May 4, 2009, 05:23 PM   #14
j6721
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Does anyone have a statute that describes exactly what law and what the punishment is for mailing ammunition through the US Post Office?

Thanks,
Jim
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Old May 4, 2009, 09:28 PM   #15
EOD Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipitas

EOD Guy, you can shout till you're blue in the face.

I, on the other hand, have shipped ammo via the USPS following the very procedure laid out by Adazon.
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You can deny it all you want, but by mailing ammunition you have violated both USPS and DOT hazardous material regulations.

I have been a certified hazardous materials shipper for many years and I am very sure of my knowledge of the hazardous material regulations.

If you will notice in the Adazon information, the US Postal Service is not mentioned. The regulation quoted is 49CFR, which is the DOT hazardous material regulation. They also leave out a lot of critical information as to what ammunition can be reclassed as ORM-D. .50 caliber or less is only one criteria.

OK, here is the definitive word from the USPS. See the link for App A to USPS Pub 52 which lists DOT hazardous materials and if they are mailable or not. If you look up Cartridges, Small Arms; you will see that they are prohibited in the mail.

USPS Publication 52, Appendix a

Last edited by EOD Guy; May 5, 2009 at 10:11 AM. Reason: Add App A link from USPS Pub 52.
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Old May 5, 2009, 12:55 PM   #16
srt 10 jimbo
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I get all my Ammo though the Mail now since all the stores are out of everything.
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Old May 5, 2009, 05:36 PM   #17
Piper Cub
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In some states the ammo has to go thru a FFL prior ot getting it.
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Old May 7, 2009, 05:53 PM   #18
srt 10 jimbo
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Not In Florida.
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Old September 3, 2012, 01:41 AM   #19
DaMarineSwabby
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Legal to ship ammo

EOD Guy is ABSOLUTELY correct . . . . Plus there is also a little tickler - that 'persons receiving Restricted material/ Contraband knowingly' are subject to Accessory Before, During or After the fact liability prosecution . . . . US Code, Accessory to criminal/illegal conduct/knowledge.
After all, fellows, it is abundantly stated in these firearms dealings on-line to 'know your Laws' - Is there more to be said~?~!
Retired Federal Law Officer.
PS- There is also a category in that Pub. relating to Ammunition, as well as
Cases, Charges, Detonators, Explosives, Fuses, Grenades, Rockets, etc - Take your pick, it all spells NO ~!~!
PPS - Hard Time in Leavenworth at least 3-1/2-5 yrs. as directed by sentencing guidelines/regulations relating to Federal Law violations; Felony conviction that puts you on bottom ladder of Life; reasonable loss of ameneties now enjoyed, along with a host of other stuff that makes Life not too enjoyable - Not to mention loss of capability to access/own firearms, ammo, drink, bars - you get the picture j6721~?~!

Last edited by DaMarineSwabby; September 3, 2012 at 02:11 AM.
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Old September 3, 2012, 06:24 AM   #20
Frank Ettin
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Old thread.
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