Getting the Lead Out

OJ · April 28, 2009, 03:00 PM

As if it isn't enough to be concerned about the anti-gunners at federal and state levels - this article was on the front page of our local newspaper - which considers itself to be "right-leaning" politically.

http://www.gazette.com/articles/rang...nges_year.html

Of particular interest is the statement about there being so much lead in the berm the bullets have been known to ricochet back some 30 yards -???

:barf:

OJ · April 28, 2009, 06:38 PM

Being of "advanced age" and associated memory changes, I note I forgot to state the reason I posted the above

As if we didn't have enough ways the anti-gunners can attack us - such as AWBs, heavily taxing ammo - If they scare enough people or cause worry about the cost of lead in the berms at the range - they have yet another way to shut us down - take away our places to shoot!

:barf:

SteelJM1 · April 29, 2009, 10:38 PM

Where do they think lead comes from in the first place? Growing on lead-trees?

THEZACHARIAS · May 2, 2009, 07:50 AM

At that price, they might as well put out a contract for a decent bullet trap like they have at indoor ranges.

I think they are going a little overboard in the cleanup though (Theres an air force base nearby full of airmen who need community involvement for their EPRs anyway; and they can bring their own shovels and buckets).

I havent thought the gazette to be "right-leaning" for a number of years now. Not nearly as left-leaning as some others, but not truly to the right either.

Chris_B · May 2, 2009, 09:28 AM

um

here's a reality check for just a second

Why in hell don't 100 inmates of the local prison get formed into a work detail, get issued shovels, load dump trucks with the dirt of the berm that they remove with shovels, and then use those shovels to form the new berm with new dirt

Why the F does it need to cost so much money to move dirt...in the '30s, a guy knew his way around a shovel. Today, we need to pay contractors

What the hell has happened to just getting the job done??

**Brian Pfleuger** · May 2, 2009, 09:57 AM

I don't see anything anti-gun in that article. It looks like pure factual information to me. They didn't say that any given berm may ricochet back 30 yards, they said THAT berm will because it's saturated with bullets.

"so much lead is buried in the ranges' earthen berm that bullets have been known to ricochet up to 30 yards back toward the shooters."

We might be a little high strung when we start thinking that they're writing "anti-earthen-berm" articles.

Csspecs · May 2, 2009, 10:53 AM

I'm guessing that if they use it for swat teams that its a pretty big range and high berms. The price sounds about right for excavating, they have the screen all the dirt and then put it back. Pretty big job actually. I can imagine that ranges dirt berms can get so bullet filled that they are like shooting gravel.

And I don't see any mention of the range being open to the public.

csmsss · May 3, 2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

they have the screen all the dirt and then put it back.

Why on earth would they "have" to do that? The metals in that earth have great value and there are many companies who not only would haul it away for free, but probably would pay for it. The only cost would be in having fresh fill hauled in and built into a berm. There's no need for something like this to be a major expense.

deanoaz · May 3, 2009, 01:48 PM

Why not just add a new facing of clean dirt to the existing berms . Bullets don't penetrate very far in dirt, right? And even if they hit an old bullet that's several inches down in the old berm the clean dirt 'cap' should contain a ricochet from that depth.

OJ · May 3, 2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

As if we didn't have enough ways the anti-gunners can attack us - such as AWBs, heavily taxing ammo - If they scare enough people or cause worry about the cost of lead in the berms at the range - they have yet another way to shut us down - take away our places to shoot!

Quote:

Why on earth would they "have" to do that? The metals in that earth have great value and there are many companies who not only would haul it away for free, but probably would pay for it. The only cost would be in having fresh fill hauled in and built into a berm. There's no need for something like this to be a major expense.

My point exactly - AFAIK, the "qualifying" is all handguns - plus the fact the police/sheriff offices have been major whiners because they don't have enough money to do their jobs - also front page stories. Placing that "whining" on the front page with big headlines is just another thing anti-gunners use to scare those who aren't anti or pro gunners - just taxpayers whose main concern is keeping taxes reasonable.

As for the qualifying, my brother-in law is an ex cop and you wouldn't believe the amount of ammo he donated to me when he retired. I guess he didn't use much of his issued ammo for practice when he was qualifying and presumably practicing.

There was no excuse for the front page large headlines here - they could whine about the cost of cleaning the jail or offices but, that wouldn't interest anybody like the "cost" of cleaning up the firing range.

:barf:

CowTowner · May 4, 2009, 01:02 PM

We had a company, the name now escapes me, come to the range where I'm a part-time RSO.
They went through the berms during non-business hours with machines they brought with them from Indiana.
They clean the berms free of charge. The lead and copper and other stuff gets recycled and their profit comes from that.
I also seem to recall they certify the berm as lead-free and have EPA approval to do so after they finish their work.

April 28, 2009, 03:00 PM	#1
OJ Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 1998 Location: COLORADO SPRINGS, CO, USA Posts: 1,569	Getting the Lead Out As if it isn't enough to be concerned about the anti-gunners at federal and state levels - this article was on the front page of our local newspaper - which considers itself to be "right-leaning" politically. http://www.gazette.com/articles/rang...nges_year.html Of particular interest is the statement about there being so much lead in the berm the bullets have been known to ricochet back some 30 yards -??? :barf: __________________ OJ - SEMPER FI - DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY NRA ENDOWMENT LIFE MEMBER

April 28, 2009, 06:38 PM	#2
OJ Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 1998 Location: COLORADO SPRINGS, CO, USA Posts: 1,569	Being of "advanced age" and associated memory changes, I note I forgot to state the reason I posted the above As if we didn't have enough ways the anti-gunners can attack us - such as AWBs, heavily taxing ammo - If they scare enough people or cause worry about the cost of lead in the berms at the range - they have yet another way to shut us down - take away our places to shoot! :barf: __________________ OJ - SEMPER FI - DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY NRA ENDOWMENT LIFE MEMBER

May 2, 2009, 09:57 AM	#6
Brian Pfleuger Staff Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Central, Southern NY, USA Posts: 14,515	I don't see anything anti-gun in that article. It looks like pure factual information to me. They didn't say that any given berm may ricochet back 30 yards, they said THAT berm will because it's saturated with bullets. "so much lead is buried in the ranges' earthen berm that bullets have been known to ricochet up to 30 yards back toward the shooters." We might be a little high strung when we start thinking that they're writing "anti-earthen-berm" articles. __________________ Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza. --- You do not HAVE a soul. You ARE a soul. You HAVE a body. -C.S. Lewis He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose. -Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

May 4, 2009, 01:02 PM	#11
CowTowner Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: Cowtown of course! Posts: 979	Why pay anyone? We had a company, the name now escapes me, come to the range where I'm a part-time RSO. They went through the berms during non-business hours with machines they brought with them from Indiana. They clean the berms free of charge. The lead and copper and other stuff gets recycled and their profit comes from that. I also seem to recall they certify the berm as lead-free and have EPA approval to do so after they finish their work. __________________ NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearm Safety and Basic Pistol Instructor "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson

April 29, 2009, 10:38 PM	#3
SteelJM1 Senior Member Join Date: April 1, 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 496	Where do they think lead comes from in the first place? Growing on lead-trees?

May 2, 2009, 07:50 AM	#4
THEZACHARIAS Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Location: Louisiana Posts: 537	At that price, they might as well put out a contract for a decent bullet trap like they have at indoor ranges. I think they are going a little overboard in the cleanup though (Theres an air force base nearby full of airmen who need community involvement for their EPRs anyway; and they can bring their own shovels and buckets). I havent thought the gazette to be "right-leaning" for a number of years now. Not nearly as left-leaning as some others, but not truly to the right either.

May 2, 2009, 09:28 AM	#5
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 2,589	um here's a reality check for just a second Why in hell don't 100 inmates of the local prison get formed into a work detail, get issued shovels, load dump trucks with the dirt of the berm that they remove with shovels, and then use those shovels to form the new berm with new dirt Why the F does it need to cost so much money to move dirt...in the '30s, a guy knew his way around a shovel. Today, we need to pay contractors What the hell has happened to just getting the job done??

May 2, 2009, 10:53 AM	#7
Csspecs Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Posts: 1,108	I'm guessing that if they use it for swat teams that its a pretty big range and high berms. The price sounds about right for excavating, they have the screen all the dirt and then put it back. Pretty big job actually. I can imagine that ranges dirt berms can get so bullet filled that they are like shooting gravel. And I don't see any mention of the range being open to the public.

May 3, 2009, 01:48 PM	#9
deanoaz Junior Member Join Date: February 19, 2008 Location: arizona Posts: 4	Why not just add a new facing of clean dirt to the existing berms . Bullets don't penetrate very far in dirt, right? And even if they hit an old bullet that's several inches down in the old berm the clean dirt 'cap' should contain a ricochet from that depth.