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Old April 30, 2009, 01:01 PM   #51
Creature
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They are able to share, but any posts on an open forum become subject to and available for "molestation". Which is why some folks don't like to post some things.
The point is that members who post their experiences dont need to be warned of the potential legal problems of doing so by other members who harbor a need to be nannys.
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Old April 30, 2009, 01:47 PM   #52
David Armstrong
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You make an unsubstantiated claim that such warnings are done because one needs to be a nanny. Such warning advice is no more nanny-ish than any other form of "be careful out there" commentary. One can give advice for a number of reasons.
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Old April 30, 2009, 01:55 PM   #53
Willie Lowman
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I had a thread where I told the details of pointing my shotgun at a drunk kid who had broken into my apartment. He and his buddy took off when one of my roommates said that he was calling the cops.

That happened 8 years ago. I made a lot of "tactical" mistakes in that brief encounter. No body got hurt. The cops got called and the drunks got arrested later on.

I received some good advise from that thread but I was shocked by the number of responses that told me that I had made a mistake by not taking the lives of two guys who were out numbered, out gunned (they were unarmed), and so drunk they could hardly stand.
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Old April 30, 2009, 02:10 PM   #54
David Armstrong
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I received some good advise from that thread but I was shocked by the number of responses that told me that I had made a mistake by not taking the lives of two guys who were out numbered, out gunned (they were unarmed), and so drunk they could hardly stand.
Some folks seem to take to heart the immortal words of Weird Al Yankovic;
Got an AK-47, well you know it makes me feel all right
Got an Uzi by my pillow, helps me sleep a little better at night
There's no feeling any greater
Than to shoot first and ask questions later
Now I'm trigger happy, trigger happy every day
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Old April 30, 2009, 02:21 PM   #55
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You make an unsubstantiated claim that such warnings are done because one needs to be a nanny.
Unsubstantiated? Of course they are nannyish. Those posts offer nothing but admonishments based on an unfounded claim that the posts in question have created legal problems for the poster.

Okay...since he opened that door: has there EVER been a substantiated case where a narrative forum post that recounted a first-person experience which involved a firearm ended with a conviction or any other legal problems? If there has, please cite them.

Until then, his admonishments are nothing more than an increase in the noise to signal ratio of the original post's asking for forum members to relate and share their personal experiences.
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Old April 30, 2009, 02:22 PM   #56
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I am not too interested in the statements some make. Like "I'll grab my XD and go COM until they're on a stretcher" or when I read statements such as, "in my house, at 3 am, there will be no asking questions".

I too can make bold statements or can speak before thinking.

I am very interested in doing the best job I can in staying aware, being prepared, and if/when duty calls (SD in home or on street) only shooting to protect my life and/or family life.

I think the hardest thing I think about sometimes is being woken up at 4 am. standing my ground near the bedroom (I will not clear or go inspecting if the alarm is sounding) and then here comes the BG in my house towards the sleeping quarters and it's a kid. Not my kid but some 13 year old either stealing for drugs or maybe being gang initiated. Shooting all of sudden still seems a possibity and I'm not one to want to get into holding people and all that. That's one of the only situations I can think of where I might light him up with a mag lite and be real verbal and go from there.

But there are still variables / does he have associates outside/inside, is he armed? is he hight?
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Old April 30, 2009, 03:22 PM   #57
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In the late 50s my Grandma was home when a guy tried to get in the back door, she got the shotgun and loaded it up. Got back to that room just as he got the door open, he had a knife, she shot him point blank and he died right there. She wasnt arrested, in those days it was considered justified. She is gone now but I always admired her spunk and keen wit.

Saw a silly shooting once. Was on a hunting trip in the early 60s, 2 guys had been hitting the sauce and argueing about the effectivness of a shotgun and number 6 shot at 50 feet. So one guy paces it out and turns his back to the shooter who shot him with 6 shot. It penetrated the coat and his back, they dug some shot out of him that afternoon. Probably why I hunt alone these days or with my brother only.

My godfather was in Nam round 65 or 66, he was shot in the back by a full auto, showed me the scars, wasnt pretty, said he got a bunch of them till he was over run and turned to get under cover when he was shot up.

2 guys I worked with in the 70s were Nam vets, one carried the other a long way after his lower leg was shot up. Bad scar but still on 2 feet and still around altho he has slowed down a bit.

Guns are not play thing nor is getting shot or shooting someone else a happy time. Not to be made lite of IMHO.
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Old April 30, 2009, 04:27 PM   #58
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Whats with grandmas & shotguns :P
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Old April 30, 2009, 04:28 PM   #59
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+ 10 KindEdward
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Old April 30, 2009, 04:30 PM   #60
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Long time ago, on our honeymoon, my wife and I were in the Virgin Islands. We were in Charotte. Walking in one of the ondoor malls. Well, a purse snatcher snatched a womans purse behind us and ran past. My wife, pointed at him and said, "go".
lol

Thats what they teach to dobes & rotts.

I hope your still not being treated this way. :P She wouldnt have to carry a firearm, all she needs to do is say GO!
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Old April 30, 2009, 06:43 PM   #61
David Armstrong
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Unsubstantiated?
Yes, unsubstantiated. Unless you have developed the power of reading people's mind, you have no way to know what is the intent of such a statement. Thus such statements as "members who harbor a need to be nannys" is completely unsubstantiated, and given the tenor of the post as a whole, I would suggest that developing such an idea is a rather long stretch without any support.
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Okay...since he opened that door: has there EVER been a substantiated case where a narrative forum post that recounted a first-person experience which involved a firearm ended with a conviction or any other legal problems?
Could be, but I'm not aware of any that meet that specific criteria. However, given the fact that postings on the internet have been used for disciplinary actions in a numbe of instances, and given that the courts have determined that internet postings can (and have) be used as evidence in civil and criminal trials, it is certainly a valid and reasonable concern.
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Until then, his admonishments are nothing more than an increase in the noise to signal ratio of the original post's asking for forum members to relate and share their personal experiences.
As opposed to the increase in the noise to signal ratio of your posts griping about what other members have posted??
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Old April 30, 2009, 08:27 PM   #62
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The point is that members who post their experiences dont need to be warned of the potential legal problems of doing so by other members who harbor a need to be nannys.
Ok. "Don't need to be". Hmmm.

Well, if they are already aware of the potential consequences, they do not "need to be" educated in the first place.

As I read your next post, however, it is not clear to me that you have that awareness.

Quote:
Those posts [referring the mine] offer nothing but admonishments based on an unfounded claim that the posts in question have created legal problems for the poster.
No, not "the posts in question", but potentially any posts....

Quote:
Okay...since he opened that door: has there EVER been a substantiated case where a narrative forum post that recounted a first-person experience which involved a firearm ended with a conviction or any other legal problems?
As I mentioned before, it is not a firearms-specific issue.

The simple fact is, that any statement made in any forum that does not constitute a privileged legal communication is discoverable and can therefore be used in legal proceedings.

This can take place in the realm of contract disputes, contract award protests, bribery, allegations of accounting fraud, employment discrimination, product misrepresentation, defense of justification of homicide, divorce or custody cases, and who knows what else.

Do you somehow think that things that involve guns differ somehow from things that involve the sale of Senate seats? Nope. The principals are the same. Exactly the same.

There have been verbal statements, recorded or otherwise, notes to the file, memoranda, emails, and other communications that have resulted in the following: (1) investigation, internal, criminal, and other; (2) termination of employment, (3) disbarment, (4) subpoenas, (5) indictments, (6) adverse civil judgments, and (7) criminal convictions in too many cases to list.

Do you think Mas Ayoob has brought this up for no reason at all?

Quote:
If there has, please cite them.
Sorry, there are far too many that I know of directly or indirectly, and it is not done until after the fact unless one wants to further muddy the issues.

In addition, unless a case has made the papers, neither you nor I will have heard about it. Trial court cases and their details are not logged into a central database. One cannot Google them.

Tennessee Gentleman mentioned one.

I am personally aware of far more than I am happy with.

One has recently come up in Springfield, IL--Governor's office. That case involved wiretaps, but emails would have had the same effect. However, the participants apparently realized that and did not commit anything incriminating to email. Doesn't matter. If it can be retrieved, it's evidence.

When I was in corporate life, this is one of the books we studied:

http://www.amazon.ca/PROTECT-YOURSEL...1139644&sr=1-5

It's worth reading reading. I trust you can understand that the evidentiary principles that can apply in a case involving restraint of trade, or the theft of intellectual property, etc., can apply equally to a case in which the question at hand was whether a person who fired a gun was in fact in imminent danger of death, or if he was not, whether a homicide was premeditated or not. If you cannot, I do not think I can help you.

Ironically, the author was later working on another book with a man who was later imprisoned. The evidence against him was revealed through electronic records.

What I cannot understand is why you would not want others who might otherwise face the same fate, or at least an expensive, unnerving, and grueling ordeal to be informed in advance of the potential pitfalls so they can avoid it.

Are you concerned that, in their wisdom, they will not post something that you would have enjoyed reading?
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Old April 30, 2009, 08:31 PM   #63
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Okay, this is my first cousin Bricie named here... She got a nice fruit basket from the NRA and an offer of legal assistance and counseling if needed... It never was needed. Closest I come to a first hand case that I care to mention...
Quote:
The Tribune newspaper in Mesa, Ariz. A woman named Bricie Tribble heard a strange noise in her home shortly after midnight and decided to investigate. She was accompanied by her .45-caliber handgun. Tribble discovered a man rummaging through her purse. According to police, the intruder told her: "I'm going to kill everyone in this house, including you.'' Tribble fired at least one shot, killing the man. Police said he had abducted a woman earlier that evening at a nearby Wal-Mart, drove her to a secluded location, raped and shot her. The victim lived and gave police a description of her assailant.
Brent
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Old April 30, 2009, 08:46 PM   #64
OldMarksman
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In the late 50s my Grandma was home when a guy tried to get in the back door, she got the shotgun and loaded it up. Got back to that room just as he got the door open, he had a knife, she shot him point blank and he died right there. She wasnt arrested, in those days it was considered justified.
I anyone thinks that would not be justified today it would be interesting to hear why.
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Old April 30, 2009, 09:14 PM   #65
Hondo11
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The problem with the "don't like to talk about it" argument is that the answer to that is way too simple: Don't.

These threads are not a demand for information. It's a request. "Hey, anybody, if this has happened to you, please share."

It's not even a question directly to any individual, where you might feel awkward to refuse to talk about it.

If you don't want to share, don't. Not commenting at all means no one ever even knows anything happened.
Yeah, but if they simply don't talk about it, then how do they tell everyone they're a real life gunfighter and get everyone to think they're the expert? It's kind of tricky. They want everyone to know (or assume/think) they have been in a shootout, but at the same time they don't want to appear too eager to tell everyone. Your solution doesn't work...
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Old May 1, 2009, 02:09 PM   #66
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Whats with grandmas & shotguns
A double is easy to load and use, besides it was the most common firearm at the time. Most everyone has a shotgun in this area. Now my Mom uses a
.357 she almost never misses.
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Old May 1, 2009, 09:37 PM   #67
stilettosixshooter
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Tribble fired at least one shot, killing the man.
+100 for having a .45 and knowing how to use it!
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Old May 1, 2009, 09:41 PM   #68
hogdogs
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The county cops chose not to release the fact that from the moment he began forward progress on her, she got off 4-5 of the .45 colt rounds from the wheel gun as he was falling forward
Brent
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Old May 3, 2009, 03:22 AM   #69
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Had on one occasion no time as range officer, the new shooter turned around (with gun) when asking what cease fire, unload & show clear meant.

I grabbed the loaded 45 with my palm over the allready cocked hammer, worked just fine but I would not advise it on all occasions.

He did pull the trigger, but all was good.
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