The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 19, 2009, 02:13 PM   #26
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 3,840
Does anyone know anything about the bullet resistance of Wonderboard or similar products? The stuff is way denser and heavier than sheetrock, and it's not that expensive. I looked for a test on the Box O' Truth website and couldn't find one; they have test results for sheetrock walls and for ballistic nylon (which did poorly, BTW), but nothing for Wonderboard.

Seems a couple of thicknesses might be a good alternative to sheetrock for new construction, or for "hardening" a safe room.
__________________
"Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding."
(Milan Kundera, Book of Laughter and Forgetting, 1980)
Vanya is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 02:25 PM   #27
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,509
If I was looking to reinforce just one wall, or just a section of a wall, I'd seriously consider something like 1/4" aluminum. I haven't looked recently but a few years ago a 4X8 foot sheet was like $400
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 04:58 PM   #28
PoorSoulInJersey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 220
it depends. Are you planning on scattering cover around your home so you can stage a running fight? Or do you just want cover in one safe room?

It's a lot easier to harden on room than it is to scatter cover around.
PoorSoulInJersey is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 06:26 PM   #29
jgcoastie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,112
Quote:
It's a lot easier to harden on room than it is to scatter cover around.
Not to mention a heckuva lot cheaper!!!
__________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.
jgcoastie is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 06:33 PM   #30
Deet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2008
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 191
I am no handyman, I'll stick with the bullet proof vest,
__________________
Ruger P95, GP100, KelTec P11, Mossberg 500, Mosin Nagant 91/30, S&W M&P 45
Deet is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 06:44 PM   #31
THEZACHARIAS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 537
Lowes sells 1/4" thick Lexan panels for about $5/square foot. You can double up with plywood underneath, screw them to the inside walls of a closet with a solid door, and paint them whatever color they where before. Call it $300-$500 depending on the closet.
THEZACHARIAS is offline  
Old March 19, 2009, 07:03 PM   #32
pax
Staff
 
Join Date: May 16, 2000
Location: Washington state
Posts: 6,917
Quote:
Are you planning on scattering cover around your home so you can stage a running fight? Or do you just want cover in one safe room?
Every house layout really has just one or two "most likely" lanes of fire, given your floorplan, points of entry, and living arrangements. Create some kind of backstop behind those "most likely" areas, and make sure everyone in the home has something solid to duck behind in their own bedroom(s), and you're a lot safer than you were before.

It's not that major an undertaking, if you remember that almost anything is better than nothing and that just because you can't do everything doesn't mean you should do nothing to improve matters.

pax
__________________
Kathy Jackson
My personal website: Cornered Cat
pax is offline  
Old March 21, 2009, 07:11 PM   #33
jgcoastie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,112
Quote:
I am no handyman, I'll stick with the bullet proof vest,
Never seen one of those before... Seen and worn many many kevlar vests... Not sure if a bulletproof vest exists. Imagine the manufacturer's liability exposure if such a product was marketed as being bulletproof...

Even if it does exist, I still would rather some inanimate object take the full brunt of a bullet. I've never been shot with or without a vest, but I can't imagine I would still be fully mobile and ready to defend myself... Even if the vest stops the bullet, you're gonna be in a world of pain that's almost indescribable. If the bullet is stopped, the inertia of the bullet as it slows/stops will still be fully transferred to your body. This could cause serious injury to bones and tissue, not to mention the possibility of severe internal bleeding if any organs erupt due to the force.

Just MHO...
__________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.

Last edited by jgcoastie; March 21, 2009 at 07:17 PM.
jgcoastie is offline  
Old March 21, 2009, 07:22 PM   #34
David Armstrong
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2005
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 2,289
Quote:
This could cause serious injury to bones and tissue, not to mention the possibility of severe internal bleeding if any organs erupt due to the force.
that will not happen, assuming the round is within the vest's designed parameters. You get bruised, and there have been a very few instances of a rib cracking or similar, but serious injuries and erupting organs are not going to happen. A fair number of officers have continued the fight with minimal interruption aftern being shot while wearing their vest.
David Armstrong is offline  
Old March 21, 2009, 07:39 PM   #35
jgcoastie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,112
Quote:
that will not happen, assuming the round is within the vest's designed parameters. You get bruised, and there have been a very few instances of a rib cracking or similar, but serious injuries and erupting organs are not going to happen. A fair number of officers have continued the fight with minimal interruption aftern being shot while wearing their vest.
Good advice, just make sure you ask the armed criminal who kicks in your door what caliber weapon he's using so you can select the appropriate vest.

If you'll read what I said carefully, I said these things could happen. And you verified that statement with your own(text in bold is my addition):
Quote:
that will not happen, assuming the round is within the vest's designed parameters
When it comes to SD/HD, I don't want to be making any assumptions...


BTW
This thread was asking for viable options for cover in the home. How many people will wear kevlar while they're watching TV? Under no circumstances am I saying that kevlar is not a great tool. No doubt that it has saved hundreds, if not thousands of lives. I'm just saying that it's not a practical tool for "hardening" the defenses of your home.
__________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.
jgcoastie is offline  
Old March 21, 2009, 09:07 PM   #36
rantingredneck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 12, 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,728
Interesting question.

The only "real" cover we have is the wall that the gun safes are against and our dresser.

It's solid wood (no particle crap. and is 36 inches wide and full of clothing. It's also one of those half armoire deals so it's got a vertical board dividing the center. 3 layers of wood, not counting drawer side panels with plenty of clothing. I'd imagine it'd stop most common handgun calibers.

Computer hutch might stop a bullet. Maybe.

Our chest with extra linens in it might but it's not in any position that would help us.

Our kids rooms are laid out in such a way that their beds are out of the most likely lanes of fire if I were trading lead down the hallway with an intruder.

Thinking about this makes me regret going minimalist on my books and bookshelves a few years ago. It got a bit overwhelming and I sold off a lot of them...........not very tactically smart .
__________________
NRA Member
NC Hunter's Education Instructor

PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link)
rantingredneck is offline  
Old March 22, 2009, 12:44 PM   #37
David Armstrong
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2005
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 2,289
Quote:
just make sure you ask the armed criminal who kicks in your door what caliber weapon he's using so you can select the appropriate vest.
You don't have to ask the criminal anything. You select a vest based on what threat level you are comfortable working with. I'd imagine one could develop a vest that would stop a .50 BMG, but it would be to heavy, awkward, and expensive for most anybody.
Quote:
When it comes to SD/HD, I don't want to be making any assumptions...
You are always making assumptions concerning SD/HD, just like the rest of us are. How accurate those assumptions are is a different story, as is how one chooses to respond to those assumptions.
David Armstrong is offline  
Old March 22, 2009, 06:08 PM   #38
Conceal Carry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 164
use small sand bags made of polypropylene or cotton. to make it moisture free use PE inner bags. Sand is the best bullet stopper.
__________________
An honest failure is better than a corrupt success.
Conceal Carry is offline  
Old March 22, 2009, 06:34 PM   #39
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,611
Quote:
If the bullet is stopped, the inertia of the bullet as it slows/stops will still be fully transferred to your body. This could cause serious injury to bones and tissue, not to mention the possibility of severe internal bleeding if any organs erupt due to the force.
I don't think you transfer 'inertia'. But this sounds like an energy transfer argument as compared to a penetration and destruction of tissue argument.

Vests are designed to spread the energy, esp. with pistol rounds. Rifle rounds are a different beast. If it were just the energy - your hand would erupt from the force.

Energy transfer as a crucial component of stopping power isn't that much of a factor with handgun rounds. If a home invader come in with a rifle - you are screwed with the common vest - which you aren't going to be wearing as you watch COPS.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old April 18, 2009, 06:55 PM   #40
sendtoscott
Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2005
Posts: 25
Quote:
Every house layout really has just one or two "most likely" lanes of fire, given your floorplan, points of entry, and living arrangements. Create some kind of backstop behind those "most likely" areas, and make sure everyone in the home has something solid to duck behind in their own bedroom(s), and you're a lot safer than you were before.
That's basically what I'm trying to do on the relative cheap. Given my house and bedroom layout, I think a "bullet stop" on the back/side of one or two of my closets should be enough to protect my next door neighbor in the event of my needing to defend myself. I'm just looking for the lowest cost option (as opposed to the expensive options that I'd get around to eventually....).

If I can't stop a 9mm SD round, what's the cheapest/thinnest material that will take enough out of it so the neighbors don't have to worry?
sendtoscott is offline  
Old April 18, 2009, 07:35 PM   #41
hornady
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2009
Location: SWPA
Posts: 428
Thinking out side the box. I just ordered one of these. My brother has one and it’s loud as Hell. Plus there is no monthly fee, and will call up to 6 out side numbers. A vest or fortified wall only works if you have time to get it on or get behind it, remember Murphy’s law. http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezS...productID=1164
hornady is offline  
Old April 19, 2009, 10:31 AM   #42
GetYerShells
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 118
I am not really sure if there is any right or wrong answer here. Just looking around my room, I see nothing that is going to stop a bullet. I have things that will slow down a bullet but not stop one from penetrating. If my home was to be invaded I think my best solution is to hole up in the master bedroom, have my wife call the police, find what cover/concealment I can and wait for them to show up.
__________________
Sig P226 .40, Mossberg 500 Persuader, Springfield 1911 GI, M91/30
GetYerShells is offline  
Old April 19, 2009, 11:55 AM   #43
Cheetah-lagra
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2008
Location: Freestate Province, South Africa
Posts: 11
Cover against sight.

Not only can one take cover against projectiles, but against sight as well.
The problem with this — sometimes — can be that you loose sight of
your attacker, too. Rooms have dark corners and, depend on the situation;
you can use that to begin a surprise attack — don’t move to the dark if
the attacker is watching.
__________________
What is the best firearm?
The one in your hand, when you need one.
Cheetah-lagra is offline  
Old April 19, 2009, 02:33 PM   #44
Creature
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 8, 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,769
Quote:
Not only can one take cover against projectiles, but against sight as well.
No...that would be concealment.
Creature is offline  
Old April 19, 2009, 03:04 PM   #45
dresden8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 18, 2007
Posts: 219
Quote:
What happpens when someone accidentally puts a hole in the bottom of the drywall? Sand everwhere and no way to stop it from pouring out while you are trying to patch the hole
You could pretend to be in an Indiana Jones movie and make a break for the door before it gets sealed up. Grabbing your hat at the last minute.
dresden8 is offline  
Old April 19, 2009, 05:38 PM   #46
X - Man
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 1, 2008
Posts: 6
It's good to think about this problem before it's needed.

My thought is to make up movable "panels", made of a square (48") of 3/4" plywood. Imagine the first square, then framed with 2 X 3's around the perimeter, topped off with the second piece, like a shallow box. Stands upright and is filled with sand. Would be placed in the likely lanes of fire. I choose 2 X 3's because using 2 X 4's make a bigger box with much more sand in between. Probably would weigh about 300 - 350 pounds. In combination with other objects in the room the panel should provide suitable protection.

It's funny, I've been thinking about this need and now it turns up on the forum.
X - Man is offline  
Old April 20, 2009, 01:04 AM   #47
Ian0351
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 11, 2009
Location: Washington
Posts: 414
So far I really like the sand bag/wall idea... If you found a way to segregate the sand into smaller units, potential for sand loss into the domicile would be mitigated pretty well. I won't pretend to know enough about construction to address the moisture issue. Unfortunately, I live in an apartment. I think the best, cheap thing to do is to place your bookshelves in locations where you anticipate fire or where you opposite from where you would be standing. Having read this thread I think I will try to find a good sized trunk or footlocker I can fill with phone books and blankets (maybe even something practical!) to use as a firing position...anything helps when rounds are incoming.

If I had a home, I would certainly want a "safe room", and would try to use the sand bag idea, re-enforced door, secure communications (something that can't be 'cut' or similarly disabled a la cell phone jammer). We have an awesome walk-in closet in this apartment that would work well for the purpose... but it's not one of the 'rooms' that I decorate and it's so full of stuff it's hard to move around in there.
__________________
You can have your churches, I'll keep my guns. Just keep your hands off my paycheck and your eyes out of my backyard.
Join the Libertarian Party! http://www.lp.org

Semper Fidelis
Ian0351 is offline  
Old April 20, 2009, 01:49 AM   #48
AZAK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2008
Location: the object towards which the action of the sea is directed
Posts: 2,103
I have lived in homes with interior log walls (log homes) and interior rock walls/river rock and masonry stone (real rock not fake). Both full height and half height divider walls.

I feel pretty confident that either of these two options would be more than adequate.

Part of the problem is that builders for quite some time tend to use the cheapest and quickest materials at hand, i.e. sheetrock.

I would say dogs are the solution to this question. Early warning devices and deterrent. You can shore up your house all you want, but most BGs are not too interested in messing with dogs; and if they are, you just may be in for a run for your money.

I prefer to keep the threat out of my home all together to begin with, and dogs seem to fit the bill nicely; but if a new home improvement project is a must: stone, rock or log walls.
__________________
The lowest paid college major/degree in this country after graduation...
Elementary Education.

Now, go figure...
AZAK is offline  
Old April 20, 2009, 01:52 AM   #49
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 1,314
A walk-in closet would be a nice place to hole-up. Especially if you stored some books/papers/hardwood storage in there.

For household items, I'd say hardwood furniture, books, and waterbeds would be fairly bullet resistant (bonus if you can combine more than one). Bookshelves give the added bonus of being useful for storage of all those books you just bought. Education AND protection!
raimius is online now  
Old April 29, 2009, 10:19 PM   #50
Old Wanderer
Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2008
Location: Bonney Lake, WA
Posts: 77
While all the people posting on this and similar threads, 100% of the focus has been on HD in the case of a few people coming into the home.

Twice in my life (while in the USA) I have been right in the middle of Anarchy. 1965 Watts Riots, and 1992 Korea Town Los Angeles Roddney King riots.

Here you had really masses of people into looting and just general destruction. Seed like LEO were more interested in arresting shop owner trying to protect their property, than the looters. There was no one to call.

The $64 question will always be:

1. How to defend, and the appropriate level of force to use against large groups of mostly unarmed people, included "children".

2. How to shield yourself from harm.

3. What do you use as defense.

) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MEqZBAu0Vo

When this descends on you, there is no advance warning to prepare. You have what you have. In '65 I had a 25/06 rifle and 12 cartridges, I used 1 to shoot a Molotov Cocktail just before it was thrown at my building. In 92 I had a 45 and 2 7 round clips. I used 2 rounds aimed at a foot each time. Both totally discouraged further advances by large groups. The option of just treating them like zombies may work, but when order is restored, you will have a long time to consider better alternatives, compliments of your government.

I was totally exposed had I had any serious armed opposition, and still do not have the answer for my home, but thinking about sand bags (smaller one, easy to move into a bunker position, and just build a storage box to keep them in.
Old Wanderer is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12975 seconds with 9 queries