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Old April 12, 2009, 06:49 PM   #1
msille
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Join Date: January 5, 2009
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CVA 12 guage Muzzeloader

I have posted a similar question, and am not proud to post another, but I have to ask.
I am getting ready to shoot my CVA 12 gauge. I have chosen a 3" plastic wad, or should I use 2 3/4? Ok, so the only way to use this is to fill it all the way to the top, then cover with an "over shot wad." Now my true question is, how much black powder do I use? Do I fill the plastic wad with black powder then dump it down the barrel, making the volume the same as the shot volume, or do I just throw in 100 grains black powder, stick in my plastic was, fill it with either 4 or 6 shot, top it off with an over shot wad and go hunting....or am I missing something. I don't do very good with drams answers.
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Old April 12, 2009, 07:11 PM   #2
Hawg
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Use 80-90 grs. of bp and an equal amount of shot by volume. Less shot gives more spread and less powder tightens patterns. Use an over powder card and a fiber wad under the shot. An over shot card over the shot. Forget plastic wads, power pistons and shot cups.
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Old April 12, 2009, 07:17 PM   #3
B.L.E.
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Using the same volume of powder as shot is usually a very good starting point. That's approximately 80 grains FFg for 1 1/8 ounces of shot. You can put in 90-100 grains and 1 1/4 shot if your shoulder can stand it.

I use two nitro cards or overpowder cards between the powder and shot, we aren't allowed to use plastic wads in the Texas Muzzle Loading Rifle Association trap matches. My powder charge is 70 gr FFFg (yes 3f) and 1 1/8 ounces of shot. It totally destroys the clay birds if I do my part.

You need to experiment a little, my load in my gun may not work well in your gun. The sky doesn't fall if the charge is not exactly right with black powder. I have seen competitors accidently double charge their guns without blowing them up.

Speaking of double charges and no charges, it's good practice to mark your ramrod with an empty mark, and a fully loaded mark.

Good luck
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Old April 13, 2009, 05:06 AM   #4
darkgael
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BP SG

Quote:
do I just throw in 100 grains black powder,
Not needed. Similar to the other posts, my load is, mostly equal-equal, and never 100 grains, not more than 85grs of FFg.
Stay away from plastic wads. Plastic and BP do not do well together; the plastic melts and deposits in the bore. If you do want to use a shot cup, take a 3"x3' memo "sticky", take two 20 ga. shells and butt them together at the crimp end, use them as a mandrel to wrap the paper around, secure with a small piece of tape or the sticky edge, cut the cylinder in two where the mandrel pieces meet, remove the paper cylinders from the mandrel, fold over the ends. You'll have two 12 ga paper shot cups that won't leave deposits in your barrel.
You'll still have to experiment with a wad column.
Pete
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Last edited by darkgael; April 13, 2009 at 06:44 AM.
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Old April 13, 2009, 11:59 AM   #5
arcticap
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I've used modern plastic shotshell wads without them melting at all. I used a base wad of balled up newspaper that was tamped down and compressed well. I've also experimented using triple size cotton balls under and over the shot load, and also successfully used newspaper as an over shot wad.
Maybe the tighter seal of the newspaper wad kept the plastic from melting while loading with Pyrodex.
The loads certainly patterned better using plastic shot wads than without them from 2 shotguns, a 12 gauge and a 28 gauge.
I used charges of 90 - 100 of both powder and shot. And I also added even more shot to fill in the pattern. Even the very weight light 28 gauge caused no problem handling the heavy payload with the help of a slip on recoil pad.
While I opted to use modern 2 3/4" plastic wads, CVA also made these softer plastic 12 gauge BP wads below which I can't vouch for their resistance to heat and flame. Notice that their capacity is 1.5 ounces of shot though.
I just stuffed the wads in and then loaded the shot into the barrel. If a few balls of shot don't fall into the plastic shot cup, it doesn't matter. The 3 inch plastic wads would better accomodate even larger shot loads as long as the over powder wad fills in any spare room in the shot cup since some modern wads have smaller shot cups & less shot capacity. Any excess petal length could also be trimmed if necessary. That's why I recommend using wadded newspaper because it holds tight and forms well when tightly compressed. Since I last shot, I bought some 12 ga. BP cushion wads to use over the powder, but I'll still probably use a base wad of newspaper to better seal the gases and flame since that worked so well to protect the plastic from melting. There weren't any noticiable plastic deposits left in the barrel either.
BP shotguns usually shoot much more open patterns than modern shotguns do, even if they have screw in choke tubes. That's why larger shot loads and plastic shot wads are useful in obtaining effectively better shot patterns.

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Last edited by arcticap; April 13, 2009 at 12:31 PM.
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Old April 16, 2009, 03:55 PM   #6
msille
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Thank you

Thank you all so much for your time and effort to help me get my Turkey gun going! I will be using it this Saturday in Iowa, 2nd season Turkey. Good luck to any of you out there getting ready to do the same!
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Old April 17, 2009, 05:18 AM   #7
darkgael
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how much

Arctic: Now you have me curious. About how much newspaper did/do you use? How thick is the wad when you've finally got it tamped down?
I ask because I have a shotgun in an odd gauge - 14ga. - and that might just be the ticket for a load. I can buy wads but newspaper is a lot cheaper.
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Old April 17, 2009, 04:53 PM   #8
kirpi97
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darkgael, another 14 ga. shooter. I use my 14 ga to hunt wild turkey with. This year's tom was my best ever. One shot kill and after skinning, there was not even one shot found in the meat area.

I have used newspaper in the past and found it to work fine. I have cushion wads now. But when I first started, no one told me about the cushion wads. So when I went out, I went with nothing but over shot and over powder wads. I went with this old boy from Mexico with his underhammer special.

He used nothing but torn pieces of newspaper for his wads. So I had to try it. Packed down good and hard, I didn't even have a problem with my second barrel jarring loose. I will say that I didn't go as far as just using newspaper like him. I used the over powder wad, shot, and newspaper.

But after talking with some old timers, I have returned to cushion wads. However if I don't have the over shot wads available, I tear of a piece of newsprint. It hasn't failed me yet. But it is a might hard to read the paper after shooting.
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