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Old April 7, 2009, 03:11 PM   #1
Kjeil
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Illinois Question

I'm looking at taking a handgun/carbine course at the Blackwater facility in Illinois over the summer. My concern is the gun laws in Illinois since I would be bringing an AR-15 along with high capacity magazines for it and my handgun. BTW - I'm just a civilian so no military/LE credentials to help me.

After reading through the posting on the NRA site it sounds like I'd be fine as long as it is in a locked case in the back but it seems like I've heard they have stricter requirements there. Any info would be appreciated.
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Old April 7, 2009, 04:09 PM   #2
Wagonman
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Locked in a separate compartment in locked case and unloaded and you will be fine.

The only hiccup is SUVs I don't know how you have separate compartment in your average SUV.

I am sure if it is in back compartment in locked case you are on the side of the angels
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Old April 7, 2009, 08:20 PM   #3
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A point of clarification

Fed law protects you while transporting a firearm through areas where it is otherwise illegal to posess it, proivided the gun is legal at your final destination. Unloaded, locked in a case, and not in the passenger compartment (if possible).

I do not know the exact requirements of Illinois law, but if the gun is not legal to own in Illinois, you cannot have it in that state. You can transport it through the state (and you are allowed reasonable stops, for fuel, rest stops, etc.), on your way to somewhere else, but if you are going to be spending time in the state (a few days, for a class), then the Fed law does not fully apply, because Illinois is your destination state.

Here's where you stand, based on the info you gave (and please correct me if I am making incorrect assumptions)

1)Your AR and hi-cap mags are legal to own where you live.
2)They are not legal to own in Illinois (Illinois residents either cannot own them at all, or can only own them with registration)
3)You are not an Illinois resident, so they would not be registered in Illinois (so therefore, illegal to posess in Illinois)
4)You want to take them into Illinois, and attend a class with them, technically "posessing" them in Illinois (which would seem to be a violation of Illinois law, because they/you are not registered)

How are we doing so far?

I would recommend you contact the management of the facility where you want to take the training, and get guidance from them. I would think that this is a situation that they ought to be familiar with. They should be able to both explain and guide you through whatever process is necessary so that no laws are broken.

It may be there is some exemption in Illinois law, allowing for a situation like yours. It may be there is no exemption, and the school will provide Illinois legal equipment. It may be that the school will only allow you to use Illinois legal equipment, which you must provide. It may be something else entirely (but I really can't see what).

The first place you need to go to find out is the school itself. Then, maybe, Illinois law, if the school can't/won't provide a satisfactory answer.

What I can tell you with certainty is that that Fed law protects you for transport, only if your guns/mags are legal in your destination state.

Basically, you need to find out if your gun/mags can be made legal in Illinois, and how to do it. If they cannot, you simply cannot take them there without breaking the law.
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Old April 8, 2009, 09:09 PM   #4
ancienthacker
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Neither hi-cap mags or AR type rifles are illegal in Illinois. There are some cities and counties where they are restricted.

AR's (all "assault rifles") are illegal in Cook County.
Handguns, unless registered, are illegal in the city of Chicago.
Hi-cap mags are restricted in Chicago, Aurora, and Oak Park (10 or 12 rounds depending in the city)
No CCW anywhere in the state

If you are planning on traveling to/through Illinois with firearms avoid Chicago and Cook County unless you have to travel through them. If so stick to the speed limit - esp in the construction zones - something we have a lot of. Don't give the police any reason to stop you and search your vehicle.

I know - Illinois s*&ks for gun owners.
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Old April 8, 2009, 10:56 PM   #5
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To be honest I don't see a lot of searching of "citizens" vehicles. Searching a vehicle on a unknown risk traffic stop for traffic doesn't happen with any regularity in my experience.

Your usual statey is more worried about giving you a banana than having you sign a consent to search.

If you are transporting weapons properly to a training facility and don't fail the hello test you should be fine.
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Old April 9, 2009, 10:34 AM   #6
mrray13
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what wagonman said...

but ancienthacker isn't far off. avoid cook county and chicago.


as far as the law is concerned, ARs are not illegal, neither are hi-cap magazines, in the state of Illinois. (in the above two mentioned states, lol, they are). if you are transporting them in a locked case (the definition of locked being fully zipped or clasped closed, not necessarly a lock on the case, though that's not a bad idea), ammo and magazines seperate from the firearm, you are ok.

another interesting tidbit...ammo/magazines seperate don't necessarly mean in a seperate case, or ammo out of the magazine. it means the magazine CANNOT be inserted into the weapon.


for the sake of your travels...locked in a case with empty magazines and ammo in a seperated bag/case, you will have zero issues.
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Old April 9, 2009, 11:18 AM   #7
ilbob
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Illinois does not have a statewide ban on standard capacity magazines or firearms with certain mostly cosmetic features. As others have chimed in, Chicago, Cook County, and a few places that are in the Chicago area do. Stay away from them.

While for the most part you are getting more or less good information, I would caution you that it is not as simple as some have stated. The law actually says:

Quote:
720 ILCS 5/24‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24‑1)
(Text of Section from P.A. 95‑809)
Sec. 24‑1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
...
(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection
(a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non‑functioning state; or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;
I would point out that being a non-resident you cannot be issued a FOID card, thus don't qualify for exemption (iii). You need to be in compliance with (i) or (ii). Very few cops really understand this part of the UUW law, so it is best to just avoid having to deal with it. There are some other sections of laws that also deal with this issue. Use a gun case (not a cardboard box), unloaded, and as far away from the driver as you can get it. If you have no trunk, make it as inaccessible as you can.

Cops in Illinois outside of the Chicago area are mostly interested in citations to meet their quotas. This is especially true of the state police. Drive safely and within the law and you probably won't attract much LE attention. As others have mentioned, construction zones are common places where traffic cops congregate. There are also cameras in construction zones and the fines are insanely high. The state police love to give out citations for not reducing speed when passing emergency vehicles that are stopped on the side of road so if you see flashing lights slow down and move over as far away as you safely can.

Chicago cops are a very mixed lot. It is just best to stay away from Chicago on general principle in any case, and driving through with firearms makes it an even better idea. CPD officers are well known for many dubious gun busts because they get lots of brownie points for them. They are also well known for targeting white drivers in more expensive vehicles. Probably because it is about the safest enforcement action they can take. Rich white people just don't shoot cops all that often, and they don't have to deal with no insurance and no driver's license problems.
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Last edited by ilbob; April 9, 2009 at 01:48 PM. Reason: cleaned up grammer
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Old April 9, 2009, 05:11 PM   #8
mrray13
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Quote:
Cops in Illinois outside of the Chicago area are mostly interested in citations to meet their quotas. This is especially true of the state police. Drive safely and within the law and you probably won't attract much LE attention. As others have mentioned, construction zones are common places where traffic cops congregate. There are also cameras in construction zones and the fines are insanely high. The state police love to give out citations for not reducing speed when passing emergency vehicles that are stopped on the side of road so if you see flashing lights slow down and move over as far away as you safely can.
we don't have quotas, they are illegal. we are, however, empowered to write as many citations as we wish.


reducing speed or not getting over for an emergency vehicle with it's lights on will not only get you a ticket, but a court date. it's call scott's law, and it's a mandatory appearence. that said, you might get lucky and get a failure to yield...


all that said...like Wagonman (IIRC, a cop up by the state of chicago) and i (cop from way down south) have mentioned, locked up and as far away from you as possible, no ammo near it and in it's own case..you should be fine. stay away from the states of chicago and cook county. where you are going is 100 west of there, roughly..avoid cook county at all costs.
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Old April 9, 2009, 10:44 PM   #9
Wagonman
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Unfortunately in the the people's republic of Chicago
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Old April 10, 2009, 03:02 AM   #10
seanie
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What technically makes an assault rifle an assault rifle? I like in Cook County and own a non converted Saiga. Is that a no no?
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Old April 10, 2009, 09:13 AM   #11
mrray13
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an assualt rifle must have some combination of these three things,IIRC..


pistol grip

removeable, box fed magazine

flash supressor

bayonet lug



your unconverted saiga should only have one of those. my uncoverted saiga does. but i don't live in the republik of cook county, check with your local laws to make absolutely sure, but i believe you are fine.
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Old April 10, 2009, 02:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
we don't have quotas, they are illegal.
You can call them what ever you want - quotas, goals, metrics. its the same thing in the end.

stop writing citations for a few months and see if anyone objects. that will tell you a lot.

one good thing about chicago right now is that there is sort of a labor dispute going on between the police and the city that has resulted in a very significant reduction in traffic citations. something like 40%.
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Old April 10, 2009, 03:01 PM   #13
Double J
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Illinois guns are not registered. No Fed Law gives the right to violate local ordinances. Some Illinois towns ban guns t-totally. Call ahead. Most of Illinois you can haul unloaded gun in a case as long as it is not readily accessable. Magazine can be loaded but must be seperate from the gun. No CCW here. Outside CCW permit not valid here either.
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Old April 10, 2009, 04:36 PM   #14
mrray13
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Quote:
You can call them what ever you want - quotas, goals, metrics. its the same thing in the end.

stop writing citations for a few months and see if anyone objects. that will tell you a lot.
where i work, it's a major source of revenue. if not the only source, no tax base like in chicago.

but like the little smilie face at the end of statement referred too, i was kidding. it's an inside joke. we honestly don't have a quota, or a goal or a metric. not in my department. we are empowered to write as many as we can/want.


Quote:
Magazine can be loaded but must be seperate from the gun.

for an out of state person, or someone in the republik of cook county/chicago, yes. for a valid FOID card carrier and anywhere else in teh state, no. the magazine can be loaded, can be in the same case, just cannot be in the weapon.


Quote:
No CCW here.
there are ways around this for in staters with a FOID card. one is a business owner at his place of business. another, well, i'll need to type awhile.


Quote:
Outside CCW permit not valid here either.
tis true. no reciprocity (sp?) for an valid out of state CCP. most of us won't write you for it however, if you are honest. but we will remove firearm and place it unloaded into a trunk. unless you are being an idiot, and then it's shackle time.
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Old April 10, 2009, 05:12 PM   #15
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I haven't written a parker or a mover in over two years.
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Old April 10, 2009, 05:32 PM   #16
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I would find a similar training course in a more gun friendly and less corrupt state. I also would find a company with a better image than Blackwater. It is your money, but spend it wisely. Part of your fees goes to the state's coffers and pays for the lunacy in their political arena.
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Old April 11, 2009, 10:41 PM   #17
Wagonman
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What's wrong with Blackwater?
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Old April 15, 2009, 10:56 PM   #18
Kjeil
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Thanks all.

It looks like I'll have to adjust my plans a little bit. I have some family in Cook county that I was going to visit but looks like I'll have to skip that part.
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Old April 16, 2009, 11:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
What's wrong with Blackwater?
Some Blackwater people in Iraq supposedly shot up a group of civillians. Big ruckus was raised. FBI?DOJ/State department all investigating.

IIRC, some low level flunkies got charged with some kind of crime(s) and Blackwater changed its name to something else.
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Old April 16, 2009, 01:28 PM   #20
Wagonman
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Quote:
Some Blackwater people in Iraq supposedly shot up a group of civillians. Big ruckus was raised. FBI?DOJ/State department all investigating.

IIRC, some low level flunkies got charged with some kind of crime(s) and Blackwater changed its name to something else.
I heard about that, it sounded like a split second decision made in wartime.

In my view don't start anything with heavily armed dudes and you won't be shot.
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Old April 17, 2009, 02:35 PM   #21
ilbob
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Quote:
I heard about that, it sounded like a split second decision made in wartime.
It kind of depends on which story you heard. Most of the versions of the story made it sound like they panicked and just started shooting for no special reason. Probably no one will really ever know what happened except those who were there. And they are not going to talk about it unless their lawyers tell them otherwise.
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