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Old April 3, 2009, 07:54 PM   #1
beowulf1911a1
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Join Date: March 29, 2009
Location: Indiana
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Unbearable Permit Times In Indiana

I am really outraged about the time it takes to secure a concealed carry permit in Indiana.

It's been 70 days since my permit application was sent to the Indiana State Police. The law in Indiana, under IC 35-47 requires that the permit be granted or denied within 60 days. This means that, in my case, the Indiana State Police have already violated the Indiana Firearms Code.

First of all, they have no right to demand a permit for any sort of carry, right? I mean, we all read the recent Supreme Court decision. So, unless I am a felon, or an illegal alien [I am neither], I should have the right to carry without any freaking paperwork.

But, being a law-abiding citizen, with never a charge, let alone an arrest, I choose to play along, fingerprinted, signated, described, notarized, and all to the tune of almost a hundred and fifty bucks [I'm applying for the lifetime permit available in Indiana].

So here I am, with the ISP having broken the law, waiting for someone to grant me a kind of permission whose very demand is unconstitutional.

What should I do? Sue them?

HA! I'll bet that's keeping them up all night.



Call the ISP and report this as a crime?

See you in the Gulag!



Or, just carry without the paperwork?

That would give me the opportunity to argue my case all the way to the Supreme Court again, and probably win.

Wearing an orange jumpsuit all the way, and paying thousands to the booksnakes.



Give me some cool tones on this one, compadres, because I am really feeling used and abused.

beowulf1911a1
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Old April 3, 2009, 09:17 PM   #2
chris in va
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Have you contacted the issuing authority about it being over 10 days late? VA gives you a temporary permit if it goes over the 45 day timeframe.

As for permitting carry, tough call. I like to think we can all carry as needed, but that's a whole other topic that has been discussed ad nauseum.
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Old April 4, 2009, 12:02 AM   #3
beowulf1911a1
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Contact the authorities. IMMEDIATELY!

Chris,

I really want to thank you for answering my post. I'm a brand newbie here, and I really like the ambience.

I have, in fact, contacted the folks at the ISP. They tell me that "it takes as long as it takes".

End of discussion.



What I really wonder, after just a couple of days on this site, is why we are all taking this.

Isn't it possible that someone could bring this community together to actually force some change? I don't mean "marches", or letter writing, or all that useless showmanship.

I mean, isn't it time that SOMEBODY with influence got us all together to say that we're just not going to take it anymore?

I've probably read a hundred posts under the "law" category, and they all consist of people like me, whining because our local law dogs won't allow us the rights that generations of our fathers died to protect.

I mean, really - when does the time come that we stop this typing and start a real movement? I don't mean violence or insurrection. I just mean something like this: what would happen if every person on this site agreed that starting tomorrow we would carry without any sort of permit, and refer our attending officers to the Federal Code? Hundreds of us, maybe thousands. How about if we put out news releases, carried openly, and simply forced the local Barney's to lock us up in giant herds?

I'm not dreaming here, Chris, because if there is a person on this site who can unite people in such a way, I am carrying his pack. I'm LOOKING for that person.

Thanks again for your post. It was nice of you to answer, and it made me really sad, because you are just as much a slave to this illegal system as I am.

As is commonly read here, those who will give up a little freedom for a little safety deserve neither freedom nor safety.

Is there somebody who will gather us together and demand that we refuse to take it anymore?

Best Wishes
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Old April 4, 2009, 02:17 AM   #4
onthejon55
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It took me around 2 and a half months to get mine after i sent off the packet to the state police so dont feel bad. everyone has to do it
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Old April 4, 2009, 02:27 AM   #5
beowulf1911a1
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two and a half months!

I don't sense that you are outraged that the ISP is breaking the law, right out in pubic, in the daylight, in front of the kids and our Aunt Nancy.

How come?

THANKS FOR THE REPLY!
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Old April 4, 2009, 02:49 AM   #6
B. Lahey
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My lifetime renewal took just under three months. Got it the other day.

After the election everyone and their mom applied for the lifetime permit. When I put in the paperwork I had 15 or 20 people behind me in line. In years past I was always alone in the office when I renewed. Massive influx of applications.

And the permit division recently had their funding and staff cut way back. They are doing the best they can.

It's the gubmint, dude. If you expect everything to go smooth all the time, you must not have much experience dealing with them.
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Old April 4, 2009, 03:29 AM   #7
chemgirlie
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Suing them will take lots of time, money, and stress. I would call the office and get a feel for what their hierarchy is. Find out which people are in charge and sit at the top if said ladder. Call them and tell them " Hey, it been (fill in time here) and I still don't have my permit. The law clearly states (fill in and cite law here)."

Be kind (who wants to go out of their way to help a jerk?), but be persistent. Call often and write/e-mail the head honchos. Also, I have found that most people will feel at least slightly personally responsible if you get their name. When you get them on the phone ask their name (even if they give it to you) and ask them to spell it for you (even if the spelling is obvious) so they know that you are taking note of their name. When you call back ask to speak to the same person (again, preferably somebody with some authority).

Be kind though. Give them a little ego boost and they'll be less likely to be a jerk to you. Something to the effect of "Thank you Mr. Smith. I have confidence that you'll take care of this problem for me." Using their name when you talk to them also provides more motivation to be personally accountable to you. Who wants a ticked off customer running to their boss saying "Mr. Smith sucks at customer service and failed to fix the issue."?

Most people will fix your problem just so you stop annoying them, no legal fees, attorney, or undue stress involved.
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Old April 4, 2009, 03:45 AM   #8
chemgirlie
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Also, ask the person you end up talking to who their boss is and what his contact info is. That way they know that you know who they are accountable to, and they know that you have his number. If they fix the problem quickly make sure to make a call to their boss and tell them that Mr. Smith did a good job and that you appreciated his quick response.

That way if you ever have another problem with permits (for your family or yourself) you simply call Mr. Smith up again. After hearing that you got him brownie points with his boss he will probably be glad to help you in the future (and go out of his way for more potential brownie points from the boss).
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Old April 4, 2009, 04:36 AM   #9
chemgirlie
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Using the above technique got me out of the infinite red tape of student loans. They told me that I was commuting to school from my parent's place, and would hence have to turn in their tax info (which would decrease my funding dramatically), when I quite obviously wasn't commuting (sorry, but I just can't make a 10 hour round trip every day).

I think the lady I ended up talking to eventually made the issue "disappear" once she got annoyed enough with me. She then helped me out again the next year when the exact same thing happened. I don't know if it was for brownie points with her boss or because she knew I would be an annoyance until the problem "disappeared", but it got fixed.
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Old April 4, 2009, 06:13 AM   #10
KSFreeman
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Quote:
I don't sense that you are outraged that the ISP is breaking the law, right out in pubic, in the daylight, in front of the kids and our Aunt Nancy.
Because enforcement takes money. If you wish to sue for specific performance, please have your money, a lot of money, ready.

You could complain to the General Assembly. I hear they are in session. Perhaps we could form an association and lobby them for increased funding of this section of the ISP?

Oh, wait, look here: http://www.isrpa.org/

Oh, wait, what luck, I'm a Director. Please help us pull the wagon, beowulf. I await your application and check.

Perhaps we could listen to a certain Director at ISRPA and have liquidated damages and criminal penalties for ISP when they do not comply with the 60 day deadline. If only more people would listen to that Director.

Quote:
I am really outraged about the time it takes to secure a concealed carry permit in Indiana.
Ummm, that's because there is no such thing here in Indiana. It is a License to Carry a Handgun. Open, concealed, on a boat with a goat, under your hat, etc.

Quote:
First of all, they have no right to demand a permit for any sort of carry, right? I mean, we all read the recent Supreme Court decision.
Please cite the language in Heller that you address.

As you know, from pouring over the Indiana Code, the Indiana Supreme Court in Matthews said that a license to carry is constitutional.

Quote:
But, being a law-abiding citizen, with never a charge, let alone an arrest, I choose to play along, fingerprinted, signated, described, notarized, and all to the tune of almost a hundred and fifty bucks [I'm applying for the lifetime permit available in Indiana].
Yes, "playing along" also known as complying with the law. You don't get something for nothing, unless you think you live in California or the East Coast where people do get something for nothing. You have to pay the band to dance.

If you object to the license you can join us and make a very generous contribution and help us eliminate the pink card as Rex Early wanted to do in '96.

Quote:
Call the ISP and report this as a crime?
What crime is being committed? Perhaps if we joined to together and generous contributed we could make it a crime.
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Old April 4, 2009, 07:53 PM   #11
drail
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I have been a resident of Indiana for 13 years now and have had to endure the wait several times. You need to understand that now especially the State Police are underfunded and are unwilling to take officers off of all their other duties to work on permit checks. It just is a low priority for them. Be patient and they will get to you. Has anybody else in Indiana noticed how many more officers they have on the roads writing tickets? I drive for a living and it's incredible how much enforcement has gone up. They primary function is to generate revenue for the State, and they are. Oh, forget about suing them. You can't fight City Hall. You can try. They will win.
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Old April 5, 2009, 08:39 AM   #12
#18indycolts
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Here's the bottom line: you, like every other new permit applicant in Indy have to wait. It takes time, be patient and you will get it. Also, is 3-4 months really an unbearable amount of time to wait when you'll be getting a LIFETIME permit?
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Old April 5, 2009, 10:54 AM   #13
cjw3cma
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Lifetime Permits ????

No way. So today if you live in Indiana and are deemed mentally competent you can get a gun permit for your lifetime? To me that's a very bad idea. After years of television and the media your brain turns to mush and you are no longer able to make reasonable decisions. You might then even go out and join the nra.
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Old April 5, 2009, 11:07 AM   #14
#18indycolts
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Quote:
So today if you live in Indiana and are deemed mentally competent you can get a gun permit for your lifetime?
yes exactly. All it does is save people from renewing every 4 years. Lifetime or not, if you break one of the rules (i.e., felony, misuse..etc) the lifetime permit will be taken away from you. Its only a renewing issue.
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Old April 5, 2009, 06:03 PM   #15
Kreyzhorse
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Quote:
Here's the bottom line: you, like every other new permit applicant in Indy have to wait. It takes time, be patient and you will get it. Also, is 3-4 months really an unbearable amount of time to wait when you'll be getting a LIFETIME permit?
+1. I'd guess that the biggest wait is behind you and I'm sure the extra time is related to the rise in CCW permit applications.

With the current political climate, the more people getting CCW permits and becoming gun owners says volumes to those in office about how society feels about their 2nd Amendment Rights.

You might have a longer wait, but be thankful that you do. If you were the only one applying for a CCW license in Indiana, you might have a much bigger problem than waiting for a few months to get your license.
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Old April 5, 2009, 09:30 PM   #16
B. Lahey
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Also, as the lady at the permit office stated it, if your application is a renewal of an active permit, your copy of the application acts as a valid permit while they are processing it.

You can still carry even if your old permit expires while you are waiting as long as you keep your copy of the application handy.

A nice touch that you wouldn't expect to get from your average government entity.
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Old April 5, 2009, 09:56 PM   #17
right winger
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Unbearable Permit Times In Indiana

It took 6 weeks for my wife and I to get our premits.
I live in a small town and the Marshall told me after he did our paperwork. He had twenty five more to do. They are back logged.
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Old April 6, 2009, 06:55 AM   #18
KSFreeman
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Quote:
you can get a gun permit
No, no permit is necessary to own or purchase. To carry one needs a License to Carry a Handgun.
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