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Old March 25, 2009, 11:42 AM   #1
Shwapy
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How do I un-Register a firearm

Ok, here’s my situation. My dad gave me two handguns about ten years ago as a gift. (a .22 and a 9mm) since then I sold them to a couple from the same state (Virginia). I have misplaced the bill of sale and have no idea the names of the party involved. My question is how do I get my fathers name off the guns? Can I?

This was a stupid mistake, I didn’t know the smart way was to go through a third party to make the sale. My dad myself and the people I sold them to are all from Virginia.
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Old March 25, 2009, 11:44 AM   #2
hoytinak
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Does VA even register your guns?
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Old March 25, 2009, 11:51 AM   #3
NavyLT
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In VA there is no gun registration. Your dad's name was never "registered" with those guns. The states and counties that require gun registration also require reporting of private sales to keep registrations current.
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Old March 25, 2009, 11:54 AM   #4
Shwapy
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So, god forbid one of those guns show up at a crime my dads name would not come up?
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Old March 25, 2009, 11:55 AM   #5
csmsss
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Losing the bill of sale, however, does present a potential problem, especially if you sold a firearm to a stranger and don't remember that person's name or address. If that firearm is ever used in a crime, you might one day receive a visit from a LEO and you might have to spend some "quality" time down at the police station until they're satisfied you weren't really involved with that crime.

My own opinion is that the bill of sale is an essential protection for the seller in the event of a private sale of a firearm, and should be kept and preserved in the same way you protect all of your other important papers.
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Old March 25, 2009, 11:57 AM   #6
csmsss
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So, god forbid one of those guns show up at a crime my dads name would not come up?
Unfortunately, that's not a given. The police are able to trace a firearm from the manufacturer to the FFL who first sold a firearm, to the first person to whom that firearm was sold. Every subsequent transaction after that involving a FFL would be (at least in theory) traceable as well, and it may well be that your father's name would come up.
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Old March 25, 2009, 12:07 PM   #7
Shwapy
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I completly understand. Does anyone have any advise where to go from here? I don't think I ever want my father to get that call. Would it be smart to report this to law enforcement and explan? Would this open up a can of worms?
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Old March 25, 2009, 12:14 PM   #8
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Form 4473 is 100% responsible for me getting a once stolen 20 gauge Mossberg 500 from a city PD 11 years after the theft... But it wasn't registered...
Brent
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Old March 25, 2009, 12:18 PM   #9
NavyLT
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You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Private firearms transactions are perfectly legal in Virginia with NO PAPERWORK REQUIRED. What are you going to tell the police? I sold XYZ gun to someone, but don't remember who? I mean, sure, go ahead and call them if you would like someone from a LEO agency to tell you that you have nothing to worry about. You didn't do anything wrong or illegal, so it doesn't matter if you call them or not.

In fact, if I am not mistaken, firearms registration in VA is actually illegal - so that means that the police department CANNOT legally record the serial number of the firearm unless it is being reported as stolen.
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Old March 25, 2009, 12:51 PM   #10
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If there isn't a requirement to a. register those guns and b. notify the police that you no longer own those guns, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old March 25, 2009, 11:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Losing the bill of sale, however, does present a potential problem, especially if you sold a firearm to a stranger and don't remember that person's name or address. If that firearm is ever used in a crime, you might one day receive a visit from a LEO and you might have to spend some "quality" time down at the police station until they're satisfied you weren't really involved with that crime.
Refuse to go unless they are wqiling to arrest you.
The only thing you need to say is "I sold it" followed by "I need my attorney."
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Old March 26, 2009, 07:20 AM   #12
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If that firearm is ever used in a crime, you might one day receive a visit from a LEO and you might have to spend some "quality" time down at the police station until they're satisfied you weren't really involved with that crime.
Maybe on "Law & Order" or "NCIS", but in the real world you don't have to go (unless Cote de Pablo wanted me to go).

"Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? Then have a nice day *close door*"
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Old March 26, 2009, 07:52 AM   #13
Huey Long
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In VA there is no gun registration. Your dad's name was never "registered" with those guns.
This depends on your definition of registration. GCA '68 requires gun manufacturers and importers to keep records of what guns they send to what shops and it also requires gun shops to keep records of what guns they sell to what people. Thus, a gun can be traced to its original owner and sometimes further, if the original owner and any subsequent owners know who they sold the gun to. Some would argue that this constitutes de facto gun registration.

Anyway, there is no Federal or Virgina requirement for the original purchaser or any subsequent owner to keep any record of who they sold the gun to. So if the gun turns up at a crime scene, your dad probably won't be in any trouble unless there are some other indications that he had something to do with the crime.
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Old March 26, 2009, 10:08 AM   #14
levrluvr
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Simple solution to the problem and one recommended to me by an insurance agent I used to deal with.
Whether you have an original bill of sale or not, take clear pictures of the firearm with a high-resolution camera (much easier these days) that includes a shot of the serial number. Include in that shot a form of ID, pictured preferred. Keep those pictures with detailed description of the firearm including any defining marks i.e. scratches, initials, mods etc. with your other important papers like car titles etc. in a fireproof safe. If ever stolen, you have a full description including proof that it was yours for the authorities.
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Old March 26, 2009, 05:25 PM   #15
Shwapy
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That is great advise as is everyone elses. Thanks !
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Old March 26, 2009, 06:39 PM   #16
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"Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? Then have a nice day *close door*"
If the LEO is getting "not nice" don't forget to add "You are trespassing on private property. Please leave"
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Old March 26, 2009, 07:14 PM   #17
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"You are trespassing on private property. Please leave"
Lemme know how that works out for ya with the "not so nice" LEO...
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