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View Poll Results: What does 2A protect?
Your right to bear arms fit to resist a tyrranical government domestic or foreign(Homeland Defense) 30 65.22%
Hunting, Self defense, home defense, and Homeland defense 16 34.78%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 17, 2009, 05:08 PM   #26
trekkie951
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In my opinion the main purpose of the second amendment was to secure the peoples right to protect themselves from tyranny. The writers of the Constitution understood that people posessing firearms was vital to securing their freedom in any case, and when the government took them it was all over. A people can lobby and protest and vote and do whatever they can to resist tyranny, but when firearms are taken and the government/military still has them, then there is absolutely nothing a people can do to get rid of that government, its the final line pretty much.

I think that is why they wrote it as 'shall not be infringed'. They expected times to change as well as the weapons, but the principle will never change. The Nazis banned all but single shot rifles and shotguns. Compare that to a military with 5 round capacity bolt action rifles and sub machine guns. The civilians if they ever were to rise up against their tyrannical government, might as well not have any guns. Same principle here in America today. If it ever became necessary for people to fight a tyrannical government and their 'assault weapons' had been confiscated, then bolt action rifles and semi auto hunting rifles with 5 round mags don't really fare well against real assault rifles and machine guns.

The revolution was still fresh in the writers' minds, and I'm sure they were thinking of every way possible to keep the country free in the future.
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Old March 17, 2009, 05:38 PM   #27
johnwilliamson062
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The book linked on amazon was $70, the one mentioned was $20. I bought the $20 one.
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Old March 17, 2009, 07:18 PM   #28
Tennessee Gentleman
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From what I have read in the debates about the 2A was that the anti-federalists were afraid because the COTUS had done something unprecedented in that the Fed took control of the state militias. The antis were afraid that the feds might not sufficiently arm them and so wanted the provision to make sure they could arm them if the fed didn't. The militia had been under state control since their colonial charter and they were not happy about a central government controlling them. Thus the 2A and the right to choose the state militia officers. Since at that time the militia was thought to be the preferred way of protecting the nation and the states from insurrections and foreign enemies the personal right was kind of implicit. That was because the militia were required to furnish their own arms whn called upon. Of course, today that system is gone and so Heller had to decouple the two clauses because of the right of personal self defense.
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Old March 17, 2009, 08:36 PM   #29
bclark1
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I voted for the first because I was thinking original intent, with the second option as collateral thereto. I did not understand until after voting that the second includes the first and more. I'm an "all of the above" guy. Not asserting that the constitution explicitly dilineates some of the peripheral rights that come along with gun ownership, but they are appurtenant to whatever it is the 2A was supposed to protect.

To those who would doubt "carry" is embraced:

"keep and bear" - both, not one or the other, and not one only. We must interpret this to mean they are both included as different manifestations of the right and neither synonymous nor redundant. "Bear" generally means something to the effect of hold, bring or carry. Nowhere will you find a definition of "bear" that relates to storing something in your basement in anticipation of T*******I [unpopular abbreviation round these parts].

bear1   /bɛər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [bair] Show IPA verb, bore or (Archaic) bare; borne or born; bear⋅ing.
–verb (used with object) 1. to hold up; support: to bear the weight of the roof.
2. to hold or remain firm under (a load): The roof will not bear the strain of his weight.
3. to bring forth (young); give birth to: to bear a child.
4. to produce by natural growth: a tree that bears fruit.
5. to hold up under; be capable of: His claim doesn't bear close examination.
6. to press or push against: The crowd was borne back by the police.
7. to hold or carry (oneself, one's body, one's head, etc.): to bear oneself erectly.
8. to conduct (oneself): to bear oneself bravely.
9. to suffer; endure; undergo: to bear the blame.
10. to sustain without yielding or suffering injury; tolerate (usually used in negative constructions, unless qualified): I can't bear your nagging. I can hardly bear to see her suffering so.
11. to be fit for or worthy of: It doesn't bear repeating.
12. to carry; bring: to bear gifts.
13. to carry in the mind or heart: to bear love; to bear malice.
14. to transmit or spread (gossip, tales, etc.).
15. to render; afford; give: to bear witness; to bear testimony.
16. to lead; guide; take: They bore him home.
17. to have and be entitled to: to bear title.
18. to exhibit; show: to bear a resemblance.
19. to accept or have, as an obligation: to bear responsibility; to bear the cost.
20. to stand in (a relation or ratio); have or show correlatively: the relation that price bears to profit.
21. to possess, as a quality or characteristic; have in or on: to bear traces; to bear an inscription.
22. to have and use; exercise: to bear authority; to bear sway.

–verb (used without object) 23. to tend in a course or direction; move; go: to bear west; to bear left at the fork in the road.
24. to be located or situated: The lighthouse bears due north.
25. to bring forth young or fruit: Next year the tree will bear.
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Old March 17, 2009, 11:17 PM   #30
johnwilliamson062
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you are correct in your definition of bear, but I believe when combined with arms as "bear arms," the phrase means more to the effect of going to battle. Maybe not, but it certainly seems I have heard the phrase used as such.
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Old March 17, 2009, 11:37 PM   #31
bclark1
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To assume such is to read additionally restrictive language that is not present into the right. I see where you're coming from but I think it's the starting point of the anti-gun slippery slope to start looking to unclear contextual combinations or alternative meanings. The words are there and make perfect sense on their face. It's followed by "shall not be infringed," about the most aggressive rejection of government regulation to be found. The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law". That is focused on the legislative branch and leaves wiggle room for executive orders and judicial interpretation. "Shall not be infringed" is a far stronger condemnation of governmental meddling. I would have to say that is strong support for a broad interpretation for the 2A, which is why I subscribe to the clear, simple and broad definition I've put forth.

There's certainly plenty of good argument beyond that but I'm trying to keep it point blank to avoid spinning off into all sorts of tangential mental exercises and longwinded justifications.
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Old March 18, 2009, 05:23 AM   #32
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Scalia in Heller said this:
Quote:
Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues.
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Old March 18, 2009, 05:54 AM   #33
alloy
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Both A and B isn't a choice, so i didn't vote.
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Old March 18, 2009, 09:35 AM   #34
johnwilliamson062
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option b includes option A
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