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Old February 18, 2009, 07:37 PM   #1
charleym3
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micro stamping of guns and ammo

Several states are going to require that handguns sold after January 1 2010 to imprint a unique number on casings fired in that firearm.

As far as I know, no handguns will be ready with that technology by the deadline. Which means that no new handguns can be sold in that state after 01/01/2010, right?

So my question is, what will the LEO community in those states be buying if they cannot buy new hanguns? In California it's called the "safe handgun list". What will the courts say when Law Enforcement departments are buying guns that the state has determined to be "unsafe"?

Is there a legal prescedence that can be used to set aside the law? Will the handgun manufactures boycot state agencies where their products cannot be sold to the public? There were rumors of that happening in NJ a few years ago.

It would need to be an accross the board agreement by the manufactures. Probably illegal. I feel the ground shakin. Somethings gotta give.
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Last edited by charleym3; February 18, 2009 at 10:16 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old February 18, 2009, 07:59 PM   #2
orchidhunter
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"if there no firearms that qualify" if none qualify for what? If none qualify, how does that make LEO guns unsafe? I think folks don't know what you are talking about, I know I don't. Give it a little more thought Charley. orchidhunter
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Old February 18, 2009, 10:16 PM   #3
charleym3
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updated for clarity

If it still isn't clear, let me know.
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Old February 18, 2009, 11:26 PM   #4
Wildalaska
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Wrong forum.

Plus their are no laws requiring it.

WildexceptinnetlandAlaska TM
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Old February 19, 2009, 12:16 AM   #5
totalloser
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The ACTUAL law in CA passed requiring sale of only firearms that microstamp IF (big IF) 1. Two manufacturers offer models that perform this function 2. The stamp is applied BY THE FIREARM, UPON FIRING, in TWO places.

Revolvers will be exempt, and any firearm maker can be sure of complete collapse of their customer base if they manufacture such a firearm. Look at what the capitulation of Smith and Wesson got them as far as sales! This would be not a capitulation, but an outright attack. That's why it is fairly unlikely to happen. And applying stamps (more than one) is tricky to say the least. Offering such a firearm for sale would be financial SUICIDE for the manufacturer.

Before this turns into some ridiculous hair on fire the sky is falling chicken little adventure, I suggest going to the DOJ website and reading the law. I did, and am much less worried about it now. Not that I'm not furious about it, but much more satisfied at it's ineffectiveness.

Don't like laws like this? Live in CA or care about fighting in the front in the battle for our liberties? Join CRPA www.crpa.org and receive current updates on such proposed laws, their passage or failure etc.

PS That's a site for California Rifle and Pistol Association.
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Old February 19, 2009, 12:22 PM   #6
scorpiusdeus
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So the lesson learned here is BUY MORE FIREARMS NOW!!!! Get all the Semi Autos you want now, and put the revolvers off till later.

Sometimes I think our enemy politicians do more for gun sales than any good marketing firm could.
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Old February 20, 2009, 01:29 PM   #7
T B Good
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This is what I found on California's microstamping.

http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/mem...3AD35AR03.aspx
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Old February 20, 2009, 11:26 PM   #8
Inspector3711
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More stupid laws... Here in Washington the state just imposed a new "safe" lead level for childrens toys. Now the ATV shops are going belly up because ATV's and dirt bikes are listed as childrens toys in the legislation. The paint has lead in it that exceeds the new state limit for toys, can you believe it? The dealers have tons of ATV's and bikes in stock but have them labeled "not for sale". They are turning customers away. The fine is up to $25,000 if they sell one.

The bazaar thing is that you HAVE TO BE 18 to buy an ATV here!

I'm tired of poor legislation that isn't thought out and makes no sense.
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Old February 20, 2009, 11:39 PM   #9
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Old February 20, 2009, 11:55 PM   #10
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This law seems to me like it is well intended but ineffectual. As I understand it, police at a shooting scene will be able to trace the shell casings to the weapon used. Right? OK, seems like good logic. However, criminals aren't exactly using there legally purchased guns in their crimes now are they? Lets just say for argument's sake that a person who legally owns guns is going to shoot someone. They'd probably not use that post 1-1-10 semi-auto. Maybe they might actually track down an actual killer from this new technology, but it's highly unlikely. I've seen many ideas that in theory would make good laws. You have to take a look at how that law will be enforced in practice. If it just doesn't look practical then there's no sense in putting this idea into legislation. You have to work the bugs out. You certainly don't go ahead with it if it's going in infringe on certain liberties or interfere with commerce based on the idea. If it were a simple new technology that all handgun manufacturers were ready to go ahead with, it would be a different story. I still don't think it would make a big difference in solving murders, but at least there would be no real downside to it. Is anyone out there actually against the stamping itself.
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Old February 21, 2009, 12:24 AM   #11
Tom Servo
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Quote:
Before this turns into some ridiculous hair on fire the sky is falling chicken little adventure, I suggest going to the DOJ website and reading the law
Way to take all the fun out of it

It's a back-door gun ban, just without having to use pesky, politically-charged words like "gun" and "ban."

If there's a bill pending in your state, here's some stuff to send your legislator:

The State of Maryland gave up on their program (MD-IBIS), finding that,

Quote:
(…) one year later, the Maryland State Police Forensic Sciences Division reversed course, citing “the failure of the MD-IBIS to provide any meaningful hits.” The report found that the program “has not met expectations and does not aid in the Mission statement of the Department of State Police.” It recommended that the data collection be suspended and that MD-IBIS staff be transferred to the DNA database unit.
The report concluded that MD-IBIS,

Quote:
“had not proven to be a time saving tool for the firearms examiner or an investigative enhancement to the criminal investigator (…) it has simply failed in the mission and vision concepts originally established for the program.”
Since its inception in 2001, the effort cost $2.6 million in taxpayer funds. In 2005, a bill was introduced to defund the initiative.

SAAMI reports that the New York version of the program has failed to turn up a single useful hit, and that as of September 2008, it is hopelessly backlogged:

Quote:
New York and Maryland have wasted millions of taxpayer dollars on systems doomed to fail. (...) It is believed that New York has even stopped entering images into its database – with a backlog of over 25,000 cartridge cases -- because the computer server housing the database is offline and isn’t even in the state.
We had a similar bill on the table here this year, and thankfully, it's dead on arrival. One of my legislators mentioned that pointing out the sheer cost/benefit quagmire is the quickest way to get someone's attention in government right now.

If he's going to be seen as pouring money down a hole, your legislator may not be so keen on pushing such an initiative. Remember, most states are hurting for money, and next year's a midterm election. I guarantee that fiscal responsibility is going to be a BIG issue.
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Old February 21, 2009, 08:37 AM   #12
thallub
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Quote:
Several states are going to require that handguns sold after January 1 2010 to imprint a unique number on casings fired in that firearm.

Not true. No states are trying to do anything. One very small company with a patent on the technology is trying to peddle their wares. The company owners go into states and get anti-gunner politicians to introduce legislation implementing that technology.
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Old February 21, 2009, 06:11 PM   #13
EricReynolds
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Thallub I'm sorry to say that you're incorrect here. The Crime Gun Identification Act AB 1471 was authored by California legislator Mike Feure and signed into law by Arnold Schwarzenegger in 2007. The law requites all new semi autos to be microstamped beginning in 2010. Fact.
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