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Old November 11, 2008, 02:54 AM   #1
McBrideGuns
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competing from a wheelchair

I'm just curious, can someone explain to me why it is that in most of the competitive pistol shooting sports people in wheelchairs have to take a penalty? I'm sorry if I irritate someone with this post but that just doesn't make since to me. Maybe I just don't know all the facts about the sports and if that is the case could someone please help me understand because I would really like to compete. But to have a penalty aginst me just because I'm in a wheelchair really kinda ticks me off so I've chosen not to try competing up to this point. Any help with this subject would be greatly appreciated.
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Old November 11, 2008, 08:14 AM   #2
Jim Watson
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Most?

You will not be penalized to shoot NRA National Match pistol from a wheelchair. Or ISU standard pistol, free pistol or airgun. Or Handgun Metallic Silhouette. Or NMLRA muzzleloading shooting.

Only IPSC/USPSA has a specific provision for "penalty in lieu of course requirement", although you would probably run up against a similar situation in IDPA because the mobility requirements are similar. And a lot of match directors in those games would accomodate you instead of penalizing you.

Don't make up your mind by what you read posted on the Internet by the Ignorant, get out and see what is going on.
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Old November 11, 2008, 08:17 AM   #3
melchloboo
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To my knowledge, Bullseye a.k.a. Conventional Pistol matches you would not face a penalty for being seated under the circumstances.

The reason you might face a penalty is that arguably, being seated provides a more solid base for the sports that require extreme precision.

You should contact the NRA regarding this issue for a definitive answer. I doubt most clubs would penalize you in informal matches. For NRA sanctioned matches though, its a little more complex as arguably you may (or may not) have an unfair advantage (ironic, no?).
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Old November 11, 2008, 09:19 AM   #4
Jim Watson
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NRA rules are available at
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/nra-rule-books.asp

You pretty much have to apply to the NRA Protest Committee to use a nonstandard position or modified equipment. Once you have authorization,
the Conventional Pistol (bullseye) rules include:

13.4 Adapted Shooting Position -
(a) In all single arm pistol events the non - shooting arm must be "at rest" on the competitor's lap. The non -
shooting arm may not touch any part of the wheelchair. The non - shooting arm may not be used to
provide added leverage by bracing against the opposite leg.
(b) The arms of the wheelchair must be removed for all pistol events.
(c) When shooting from an authorized wheelchair or chair with a back, the competitor's buttocks must be tight
against the back at all times. No "Iay down" or "bridging" positions using the back are permitted.
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Old November 11, 2008, 09:04 PM   #5
HeroHog
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I have always been given a "by" on that but then again, I have competed VERY little! I understand the "solid base" line of thought and, if you were otherwise OK, it would be an unfair advantage in some competitions. I shake so much and have so many issues, it doesn't give me much of an edge! This past weekend I had to shoot weak handed due to an ongoing shoulder issue. Did a LOT better than I would have thought I would. Still, I was FAR from the winner in our little competition!

I stood long enough to pose for this picture:

(I am on the right)
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Old November 13, 2008, 12:01 PM   #6
McBrideGuns
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Thank you all very much for your information and helping me understand a little better the rules of these competitions.
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Old December 6, 2008, 08:34 AM   #7
Nev C
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No advantage

Some years ago at a shooting range I got talking with a wheelchair bound competitor in a match regarding any advantage he had in being seated in a wheelchair. He was a paraplegic and he said there was no advantage, just the opposite. because he had no muscle control from the waist down he just flopped during each shot, he could not brace himself. Able bodied people think that shooting from a seated postion would be easy, but that's because they are able bodied. Try this exercise, sit in a chair, lift your feet off the floor, pretend you are paralyzed from the waist down and fire a handgun. The recoil will knock you sideways, being paralyzed you have no muscle strength to brace yourself, I fail to see how being wheelchair bound could be considered an advantage.
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Old December 6, 2008, 03:05 PM   #8
HeroHog
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It all depends on your disability. Some have more issues than others. I CAN walk and stand but only for a very short time before the pain is too much to take. Because of that, I use a wheelchair. In my case, it would be an advantage. Then again, after a short while, my accuracy goes all to heck because, even in a wheelchair, it takes a lot out of me. In no time I am ready to go home and collapse into my recliner.
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Old December 14, 2008, 10:25 PM   #9
USA123456789
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Mcbride maybe try trapshooting there is great wheelchair competion. I know at least ten people that shoot from a chair an shoot from the 27 yd line. No handicaps for any one. Everyone has the same chance to make it in the sport. I dont know anything about pistol competion and why the would handicap the wheelchaired but i think that is just unfair and etc .......
But maybe trapshooting cold be for u the trapshooters treat all as equal.
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Old December 14, 2008, 11:48 PM   #10
Shorts
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Well here's an outside comment, but I fail to see how being seated in a wheelchair that requires using arms in order to move yourself through stations is an advantage when shooting. Arms fatigue, shoulders fatigue, hands fatigue, body fatigues - this is an advantage how? I am not familiar with any of the shooting sports so my question may be completely off target.

If I might be so bold but to suggest, if you would like to simulate the above conditions, try doing 10 push-ups in between each firing station.

I have no use of my left arm for anything and it is of no support or stability when at the range. I was also in a wheelchair and had to relearn to walk after lower body paralysis from a severely broken neck. I am also a Health and Fitness Edu. so I'm intimately familiar with A&P. An injury sustained as a result of nerve damage in the CNS is severely debilitating in regards to motor skill and muscular strength, not only in the immediate area but throughout the body. The body's anatomical structure for efficiency of movement and strength is based on symmetry, complimentary joints, and opposing muscle groups. When one part us affected, all parts are affected.

Granted, some equipment that is used for assistance may provide stability but assuming it makes any normal motor function easier isn't accurate. I know its cliche but I'll say it - unless you've walked a mile in those shoes, you can't fully appreciate just what it's like and how difficult it truly is.

I'll also ask, do the governing bodies who establish disability rules/allowances do so based on information and cooperation from any Physical Therapists inputs (or similar?)?
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Old December 15, 2008, 01:37 AM   #11
HOGGHEAD
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Shooting

I go to rifle shoots, pistol shoots, bow shoots and MZ shoots in my wheelchair. I must say that I have never had one problem or complaint what so ever. the only thing I hear is I can not believe that guy beat me in a wheelchair!!! I am quite sure that any one who complains about you, his complaints will fall on deaf ears. Get out there and compete. Everything else will take care of itself.

The only thing I ever hear from other shooters is this: "Is there anything I can do to help you". Tom.
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Old December 20, 2008, 05:27 PM   #12
digisol
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It would be against most laws to restrict you from entering all but a limited few that might actually give you an advantage, US laws are very different from here in Australia where it would be near illegal to deny you a chance no matter the match with the only exception for some safety rules.

Pretty sure they have shooting diciplines in the paralympics, but to be honest i've never seen it, i've personally seen wheelchair trap shooting, all Bench Rest, and steel sillouette in rifle and pistol, and many other handgun events would be OK, to deny you here would break some serious laws like those that allow for guide dogs to go anywhere.

Modified chairs should still allow for quick handgun draw, interesting.
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Old December 20, 2008, 07:52 PM   #13
HeroHog
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The wheelchairs I have used have removable arm rests giving you access to your hip and a holster. I draw from a man-bag () that hangs down at draw level (I used a laptop bag strap in place of the stock strap that came with the bag). It's a nice bag and as it's impossible to reach my pockets in my chair, I keep all by stuff in my bag.

Here is the bag I use:


Here is the site for the bags: http://esramey.com
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Old December 25, 2008, 07:17 PM   #14
Brit
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A little humor might be in order, I shot with a shooter who had one leg he had a missing left leg, a couple of inches above his knee. Used a artificial one.

We shot International Shooting Union ISU, .22 and CF Center fire did not allow .45, but it did allow .38 and 9mm, the winner! .32 S&W revolver cartridge, from a pistol, me a Walther, some used Hammerlie's.

5 shot magazines, any how a French competitor complained he had an unfair advantage, the international committee agreed, said he could avail himself of that self same advantage if he wanted too! Cut his leg off!
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