The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 27, 2008, 06:21 PM   #1
Jack O Spades
Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2008
Location: southern MI
Posts: 21
C.A.S. equipment questions for newbie

I am not yet in cowboy action shooting but I would like to as soon as I get some equipment around. Right now Im looking at a Ruger Vaquero and a Winchester 94 lever rifle. Both in .45 colt which brings me to my first question.... are .45 colt and .45 long colt the same cartridge? How is the recoil? Are target aquisitions fast? How does it compare to a .44 s&w? As far as a scatter gun, my dad has an 1897 Winchester I think I can sweet talk him out of, hes not using it, I dont think its been shot for as long as I have been alive...Im 26. Anyway I really like double barrels too but Im not sure what models are acceptable, all I know is that it cant have a shell ejector. Any tips on equipment and practice drills would be greatly appreciated. Before I go spend a couple grand on some new steel I kinda want to get my homework done so I get the ones I want.
Jack O Spades is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 07:18 PM   #2
w_houle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2007
Location: Junction City, KS
Posts: 1,389
I can't offer much useful information, but the only things I can say is that ther actually is no such thing as a .45 Long Colt: it's just .45 Colt. The only thing I can figure it that they got to calling the the .45 Colt "Long" die to it being longer than the .45 Schofield.
IIRC someone told me that .45 Colt can be loaded more often due to it having thicker brass, but I'm not sure on that.
I'll let someone else answer the rest.
__________________
How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?
w_houle is offline  
Old November 27, 2008, 07:22 PM   #3
Artisan
Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2008
Posts: 22
.45 Colt and "Long Colt" are referring to the same thing. Some people call it "long" Colt so readers don't mistake it for the other .45 rounds. Technically, the correct name is ".45 Colt." .45 Colt has what I would call moderate recoil. It's less than the .44 Magnum but more than some others. Of course, the CAS guys load some really mild stuff that has ridiculously low recoil.

Some guys are switching from .45 Colt to .357 magnum and loading .38 specials. The .38 special ammunition is less expensive. I am not a Cowboy Action Shooter, so others will probably have additional information.

This webpage has good information for people looking to get into CAS.
Artisan is offline  
Old November 28, 2008, 06:20 AM   #4
sundance44s
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 6, 2006
Location: Hernando , Ms.
Posts: 579
The Ruger pistols are a good choice ...I`d suggest you take a look at a winchester model 1892 in 45 LC instead of the 94 ...it`s a good natural pointer .
In shot guns I have a Stoger uplander SXS ..makes a good hunting gun too with the 24 inch barrels.
sundance44s is offline  
Old November 28, 2008, 06:26 PM   #5
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,803
First off you need two pistols, a shotgun and a rifle. The 94 being designed for rifle cartridges from the get go doesn't accept pistol cartridges well . The Winchester 97 is legal but the 93 isn't. The 1887 is legal also. Any double is legal as long as it doesn't have ejectors. Unless you reload the .38's are the cheapest way to go as you'll be shooting 20 rounds per stage with at least five stages to a match. Don't skimp on leather. Get the best you can possibly afford. Cheap holsters are too soft and will bind. Good holster are a loose fit and stiff. The best ones are lined. Go here and read. You'll pick up a lot of info. There's also rule books linked at the top of the page.http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?act=idx
Hawg is offline  
Old November 28, 2008, 06:38 PM   #6
Hoss Fly
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2005
Location: East Texas
Posts: 849
Wat Hawg said + go to at least one match before you spend money!!!!!!!
Folks there will loan you guns, give you advice & you mite even find sum deals on guns & equipment
See wat you gettin into before spendin cash less ya got more than me (most do anywho)
Hoss Fly is offline  
Old November 28, 2008, 07:29 PM   #7
Jack O Spades
Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2008
Location: southern MI
Posts: 21
Thanks for the info. Today I found a used Dakota single action for $225 at my local gun shop in .44/40. Its a well taken care of gun with the case hardened finish that I love so well and a little bit of brass here and there. Im not much of a brass fan but this one doesnt look bad. I dont know much about the manufacturer other than its Italian and imported by EMF. I think Ill get it. The price is right, and even if I dont use it in competition at least Ill have something to go through the motions with untill I get a competition gun. Im a gun lover first and a competitor second. If I buy a gun its because I want it or need it for hunting or plinking not for competition. Cowboy action would just give me a reason to shoot more often.
BTW...the local C.A.S. club doesnt require you to have 2 revolvers, they recommend it, but not required. I still need to find a lever gun though.....in .44/40!
Jack O Spades is offline  
Old November 28, 2008, 08:10 PM   #8
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,803
Get a Rossi. Little rough out of the box but slicks up nice.


Loaded rounds are about 35.00 per box. Reloading takes some getting used to with the thin brass but worth it. The 44-40 is a great round and unlike the .45 Colt it's historically accurate for lever guns.
Hawg is offline  
Old November 28, 2008, 08:44 PM   #9
Hoss Fly
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2005
Location: East Texas
Posts: 849
That Rossi shore looks fermiler
Hoss Fly is offline  
Old November 28, 2008, 10:45 PM   #10
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,803
It ought to but it's a lot smoother now and no you can't have it back.
Hawg is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 09:13 AM   #11
Hoss Fly
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2005
Location: East Texas
Posts: 849
Hoss Fly is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 01:05 PM   #12
zippy13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawg Haggen
The 44-40 is a great round and unlike the .45 Colt it's historically accurate for lever guns.
+1
I have rifle and revolver in .357 Mag and wish I'd gone the 44-40 route. It was a case of impatience and availability -- purchase in haste and repent in leisure.
If you're going for a matched rifle/revolver, and aren't concerned about historical accuracy, you might considered .44 Rem Mag over .45 Colt.
zippy13 is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 01:37 PM   #13
Jack O Spades
Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2008
Location: southern MI
Posts: 21
I would think the .44 mag would have alot more recoil than the .45 Colt. My dad has a double action S&W 629 .44mag which shoots really well but I couldnt imagine trying to squeeze off all 6 rounds with very much speed and still be accurate. The target aquisition is slow with that big of a cartridge, although...If I end up with that .44/40 it might surprise me as to how potent it really is. Ive never shot one but it looks like a pretty ****** off little shell. If it is too much for speed shooting I think it'll make a nice sidearm for deer hunting.
Jack O Spades is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 01:46 PM   #14
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,803
A 44-40 or .45 Colt especially loaded full up with bp is pretty potent but nowhere close to a .44 mag. You can load them to .44 mag pressure in a strong action like a 92 Winchester but the brass won't last long. Why should target acquisition be slow? Recoil helps with faster cocking of a SA because when it rolls up in your hand it makes it easier to get to the hammer spur. There's some pretty fast CAS shooters that use 44-40 and .45 Colt.
Hawg is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 02:03 PM   #15
long rider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2008
Posts: 669
The 44 mag has i up on the 45, you can allways load up
44 spl, thats what i do in my 44 mag saa, + i load my owen
and use 44-40 lead, so i think the 44 mag is a good all round
gun, buts thats just my op.
__________________
Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.
long rider is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 02:16 PM   #16
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,803
Quote:
and use 44-40 lead
How's that workin out? Modern 44-40 lead is .429. .44 mag is .430.
Hawg is offline  
Old November 29, 2008, 02:21 PM   #17
long rider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2008
Posts: 669
MY old west german saa shoots really well with 44-40
lead, i have loaded and shot countless round with good
results, never had any probs
__________________
Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.
long rider is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 06:00 AM   #18
Jack O Spades
Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2008
Location: southern MI
Posts: 21
What models of shotguns is everyone shooting? Like I said before, I think I can get an 1897 winchester for nothing if I can sweet talk my dad out of it, but Id also like to find a sxs without the shell ejectors. I dont have a clue what models to look for. All the guns I have found have shell ejectors or 30" barrels or both. Im going to populate my gun safe after Christmas and I need some info. BTW Im a real big fan of the case hardended finish so if there is a shotgun out there with it that would be the one I want (for under $500).
Jack O Spades is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 07:03 AM   #19
Gecko10
Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 46
Gun and leather selection is a very critical and costly, aspect of this sport. There are a variety of different SxS shotguns used. The TTN 1878 hammered double coach gun is very popular, as they generally run well right out of the box. That is what I shoot. The Stoeger's are also popular SxS. The 97's are also popular, if you can get one that runs well and is reliable. I'd say it was about a 70% SxS, 30% 97 mix, at least around here it is. As stated earlier the 1894 rifle is not a particularly well liked rifle. Most folks shoot 1866's, 1873's (Uberti's) or 1892's (Rossi's) which can be problematic without some work. The Ruger Vaquero is a popular revolver as are the Cimarron Model P's and EMF Great Western II,s. The Vaquero is alleged to be more robust, but as you know is not of Colt design.

You should consider your choice of caliber carefully. If you really want to be competitive then .38 Spl would be your best and least expensive choice, particularly for reloading. If you are striving for authenticity then the .45LC or .44-40 or .38-40,shooting black powder would be a consideration. Likewise you should give some consideration to the category that you will want to shoot in as some categories only allow certain calibers. Also as pointed out you will need two revolvers. If your club does not require it then they may not be SASS affiliated. However all the SASS clubs that I am aware of require two revolvers. Here is a link to the SASS Shooter's Handbook and you should read it before making any equipment selections.

http://www.sassnet.com/Shooters-Handbook-001A.php

I strongly recommend you go here with further detailed questions. It is a very active forum solely dedicated to CAS and you will get much more in-depth, detailed responses. Likewise you can find some very good used guns there.

I am Whiskey Creek Adams there and I think Hawg is Hawg there (our SASS alias') which you will have to get sometime as well as a SASS membership.

http://www.sassnet.com/forums/

Last edited by Gecko10; December 4, 2008 at 08:03 AM.
Gecko10 is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 08:07 PM   #20
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,803
Quote:
I am Whiskey Creek Adams there and I think Hawg is Hawg there
Yep, same there as here.
Hawg is offline  
Old December 6, 2008, 08:09 AM   #21
Hoss Fly
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2005
Location: East Texas
Posts: 849
Whiskey Creek Adams - That was a well thought out, precise, clear & purdy much rite on explanation of the basics of bein well equiped for CAS shootin
Ya mite know me as Boss Hoss Fly

Hey Hawg
Hoss Fly is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11351 seconds with 9 queries